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Disassemble Doxa Dial

drini

By drini
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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hello all, was to tired yesterday to replay.

thank you for the info, i did re-strip the watch.Took out the escape fork, wheel bridge and the 2nd, 3rd and escape wheel to have a much better view.

i can verify that the impulse jewel is resting between the two pivot that are touched by the escape fork.

so the position of the jewel is correct but the balance wheel does not rotate properly. the yellow crown is always tilted to one side.

Due to this whenever I have never seen any rotation like the one in the videos of Mark.

Any sugetions what may be the problem and how to fix?

You can try fitting the balance without the fork to check it swings freely. And of course with barrel, train and fork installed you must be able to just touch the tip of the fork and observe it moving to the other side and the escape wheel moving.
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drini
drini

Well i managed to fix the screw and after 2 days of testing the watch is working. I haven't fully recharged the main spring as i fear the crown wheel will pop off :). From checking the watch during

bobm12
bobm12

LOL, I'm compiling a "Cursing Guide for the Frustrated Watchmaker or How to NOT Screw Up Further by Releasing Steam", with stuff I come up when I'm mad at my watches! There are sections of "Proper Cur

drini
drini

damn this watch is going to be on fire, diesel to loosen the parts and lighter fuel to clean the other parts :)

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drini Member

drini

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the movement is 26/7mm in diameter, as a result i cannot put the other parts as i dont get any view of the balance wheel

this is my balance wheel, I don't know if it is the plain where i putted it but to me looks tilted to the left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywWFanwtbdI.

when it is mounted it does not stay clear and touches other part of the watch

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drini Member

drini

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the problem with the balance wheel was due to the coil. i took the balance wheel apart and found that the coil does not spread equally. the center of the coil when i attached to the balance fork does not rest in the center matching the jewel from the fork.

also when i rotate the fork i see that part of the coil do not stay horizontally they drop, this is why the crown was not rotating freely.

also i think some rings of the coil doe not have the same gap.

 

One question guys do you advise me to try and mend it or should i go and by cheap doxa with same movement and replace the balance wheel??

thank you

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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the problem with the balance wheel was due to the coil. i took the balance wheel apart and found that the coil does not spread equally. the center of the coil when i attached to the balance fork does not rest in the center matching the jewel from the fork.

What is the "balance fork" ? Balance has no fork.

 

also when i rotate the fork i see that part of the coil do not stay horizontally they drop, this is why the crown was not rotating freely.

Which "crown"? Balance has no crown.

 

also i think some rings of the coil doe not have the same gap.

That does not prevent the balance from swinging and escapement from working.
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ricardopalamino Distinguished Member

ricardopalamino

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Similar to the problem you had earlier with the train gears ,...are the pivots of the balance wheel in the jewel holes ? You mentioned something was tilted to the left .  If so , then is the impulse jewel on the bottom of the balance wheel nestled between the tiny fork of the pallet ? If so , then the balance should swing right and left even if the hairspring is misshaped as I think you are suggesting . In your Youtube video I don't see any real or obvious problem with the hairspring except that maybe it needs to be cleaned {soak in the lighter fluid and then blown dry on some absorbent paper } ,  but as I said , that would not keep the balance wheel from rotating freely . 


  I would get to that point before concerning myself with any hairspring issues .


  Follow the advice in jdm's post ,  " try fitting the balance without the fork to check if it swings freely "......that should eliminate any issues with the balance wheel hanging up .


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drini Member

drini

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hello all,

First of all im sorry for some of my wrong watch references as pointed by jdm, I don't know if this will turn into a hobby.

What i meant with "balance fork" i called the arm where the spring is attached, the one where the screws goes in to point the balance wheel to the watch movement.

As for the "balance crown" :D i meant the rotating pendulum, the one where the impulse jewel is(to me it looked like a crown).

 

i have tried yesterday what you guys have mentioned above, took out escape fork, wheel bridge, and 2/3 wheesl plus escape wheel  for visual clearance and putted the balance wheel  in its position and result was the same.

As much as i could tell the bottom pivot was in its hole for the upper pivot i didn't pay attention to it.

 

At moment i have taken apart of three components of the balance wheel(i don't know if i have made any damage to the spring during this process).

when i put the rotating pendulum pendulum and left if a table it sill always falls into the side where the impulse jewel is(did not try to rate it into the watch)

took the spring stud putted in its hole, than putted the spring through the regulating arm and i can see that center of coil does not fall into the jewel hole. the center of the coil is on the left of the jewel.

Also when i rotate i see that the spring does not stay horizontally but it start to form a cone shape with the center droping.

 

This is the most i did yesterday, got tired of staying attached to the watch :)

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Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

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If you have taken the balance assembly apart, you are in a world of hurt Drini. I really think the best thing you can do is to replace the complete balance assembly by first purchasing another movement. The reassembly of the original balance is more than likely beyond your current skill level. I mean you disrespect.

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drini Member

drini

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Damn it i really thought i could do this with minimum cost, do you have a link for the sonar movement? when i check it i always get watches with some sonar dial which does not look like what you meant Geo.

depending on the price i will make a judgement of whether to keep on going or leave it.

thank you.

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jeffc83 WRT Addict

jeffc83

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You'll definitely find a cheaper donor movement/watch but will have to keep looking, depending on it's rarity.  I spent the greater part of 6 months searching for a balance assembly for my 1939 Emerson Military.  I literally just found the 7 Jewel Emerson Movement, which has a good assembly.  I am now praying to the watch gods that surgery goes well.  Best of luck; I know you'll find one!

 

I'm sill in shock that you have the guts to disassemble the balance, lol.  (I have not done this myself yet)

 

EDIT:  I have found two movements that are ETA 1080's:

 

$18.99, will require dial removal:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mars-ETA-1080-gents-60s-watch-movement-and-dial-Running-/361481141904?hash=item5429f47e90:g:k9QAAOSwXshWrxsE  

 

$29.00, looks ready to go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ETA-1080-Vintage-Mens-Swiss-Watch-Movement-975-/181890310042?hash=item2a5981df9a:g:CNEAAOSwKIpWDZ6K

Edited by jeffc83
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drini Member

drini

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hello all, for me dissembling the balance wheel assembly was the logical thing to do(even though i may have damaged it further).

after not working for two days on the watch i think that was the part that was not working.

Crown mechanism was working OK, i could move the hands. Key-less mechanism was/is working OK, main spring barrel,intermediate 2nd,3rd wheels were/are rotating OK, escape wheel/fork are also working OK.

 

So now spare parts, as Jeffc83 has pointed is nice to now i can look from other watches for spare parts. the two items i found are these http://www.ebay.com/itm/172086728406?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT and http://www.ebay.com/itm/391383122104?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

which from these i can take also the dial if i decide between one of them.

 

Can you please let me know how i can identify the movement i have so that i can do additional digging?

 

thank you.

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jeffc83 WRT Addict

jeffc83

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The movement will be marked with "ETA" and "1080".  The one I worked on last night was also an ETA and was marked on the "backside" of the watch if you will on the bottom plate. (getting these terms down is my next challenge, lol)  I've also seen the marking under the dial.  I would ask the seller OR do a close eyeball comparison and I mean CLOSE comparison;)  (I did a quick onceover on your first link...bingo, was a match)  I may have just gotten lucky in the past but that's how I'll match movements at times...ONLY if they match 100% in terms of looks of course:D  Some sellers just don't know and cannot find out but it's always worth asking.

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drini Member

drini

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hello all,

after exactly one month since the last post was made in this topic i finally have some updates.

this week was able to get my donor watch and upon inspection, through a cheap(**BLEEP**) jewel lenses i was able to determine why the balance wheel was not spinning.

the bottom pin was broken as a result the wheel was making contact with surrounding metals, also was able to determine that my original escape fork was suffering from the same issue.

replaced both of them reassembled the movement and I WA ABLE TO SEE THE WATCH WORKING :D:D:D.

My joy was cut short, the ratchet wheel is not screwed tight. every time i give some rotation to the crown the wheel will pop off.

i tried rotation clock wise/ anti clock wise but same result im not able to tight the screw.

the same issue is also in the donor watch, im not able to tight the screw.

any advice on this regard??

thanks in advance

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bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

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I believe someone stripped the thread on both movements! AND it may very well be the main plate. Did you try the screw from the donor? If that doesn't work AND you are sure it is the right screw, AND, if you are not being picky AND want to go against all watchmaking precepts -- forgive me Mark and all others here -- take epoxy and epoxy the hell out of that screw. :devil:  :growl:  :mad:  :thumbsd:

 

Of course you can try and re do the thread and find a new screw to fit and all. Better, find a main plate from maybe another donor...I don't know if you will be up to this. 

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drini Member

drini

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well no, it is not the wrong screw. all screws are accounted for. when i took them apart i putted all the screws in different bags along with the part were they came from/go to.

When i put the screw in the hole it drops to the bottom i don't get any resistance which will make to insert the screw with rotation.

I did some additional checks on the two screws and found out that my original had no threads and the donor screws had part of the hole walls in it. 

well i will buy some epoxy and glue the screw  :(. im very disappointed that i have to do this but after spending 2H yesterday on trying to find a spot for the screw to hold this is the only option i have.

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