Disassemble Doxa Dial

[drini]

hello all,

by fortune i ran into the watch repaid channel in you tube and after watching 10-20 video i convinced my self into trying to repaid my grandfather's mechanical watch. at least give it a try.

It is a Doxa, swiss made as it can bee seen from picture, and it was not moving.

it is nearly 50-60 years old, but the movement inside is clean of any rust although all the parts need to be cleaned as they look to be stuck and maybe this was the reason why it not working.

 

Even though watching 10-20 videos of Mark during the weekend, i started the project on the wrong foot. i took out as many part as i could without detaching the dial from the mechanism/case.

Can some one please advise me how to do it? i have insert some additional photos which may help.

by fiddling with the mechanism i found that is can move/rotate within the case but it does not go up or down.

 

I would love to repair the watch and present it as a gift to my mother.

 

thanks in advance

[Geo]

Welcome to the forum Drini. You really should have removed the movement from the case before you started removing parts, you risk breaking pivots and cracking bearings doing it this way.

I would recommend replacing the bridge that supports the remaining wheels before attempting to remove the movement. After you have done that, you will need a single sided razor blade, a Stanley knife and a case knife to prise off the bezel complete with crystal. Carefully force the razor blade between the bezel and case to start lifting the bezel. Next use the thicker Stanley blade to lift it a bit more, this will now allow your case knife to enter the gap and prise off the bezel.

Once the bezel is off the movement complete with dual should lift out if the case. Remove the hands, then undo the screws that retain the dial, these should be accessed from the side of the movent. Once slackened, the dual should lift off.

[drini]

hello GEO, thank you for the advice. did as advised and was able to remove the bezel with the glass from the case.

After this the movement just dropped :).

went on to take out the hands, and by undoing the screws and the side also the dial was detached from the movement.

 

However now i'm stuck again, the watch striping is held by 3 screws which do not want to get off.

2 of them are used in the cover of the minutes rotor(sorry is the wheel is not the right one very very new to this) and the the third one is used to cover a spring and one lever which are used on the crown mechanism.

is there a way to loosen these screws??

i have tried by modifying the head of two screw drivers but im afraid of damaging the screw heads.

 

best regards,

Drini

[Geo]

First make sure that you use good quality screwdrivers that are ground to be a tight fit in the respective screw slots. Immerse the plate in Plus Gas penetrating oil for a day or two and then try again. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-X-Plus-Gas-Tin-Spout-250ml-Bolt-Screw-Assembly-Lubricant-Clean-Protect-/391096277473?hash=item5b0f2799e1:g:nzsAAOSwZ1lWcAre

You can also heat up the plate by putting it is really hot water for a couple of minutes as this will expand the plate and may allow you to undo the screws.

[ricardopalamino]

Do not try to force the screws off . You will break the head off and then you have a real problem . After doing as Geo suggested , using the proper screwdriver in good shape and a tight fit. put a firm constant pressure to see if the screws are ready to turn loose . Try one screw then another if still stubborn  . Patience is key here . If still stuck , repeat Geo's instructions . Give the penetrating fluid time to work .

[drini]

hello all,

thanks for the advises, i ordered from ebay a toolkit for watches which will come in nearly 1 month. until then the project is paused :).

best regards,

Drini.

[Geo]

If you have to wait for a month for tool and you don't have penetrating oil, leave the movement sitting in a jar of diesel until your tools arrive.

[drini]

thanks for the diesel suggestion, i will go and purchase 1L or 1.5L.

One other question, i do leave in Albania and here we don't have any shop that can sells any watch product such as cleaning/tools and stuff like that.

As i have to wait for the tools to arrive, is there any product(liquid) i can use to put the parts i took out for them to clean?

I checked the instructions Mark give in the video but i don't have any possibility to any of the products he suggests, they do not ship here.

[Geo]

To keep your costs down, I would suggest that you use lighter fuel. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-X-RONSON-133ml-LIGHTER-FLUID-FUEL-PETROL-BARGAIN-/200574679809?hash=item2eb32ebb01:m:m0VDjL3bJbPQcvGarItZA0Q

There are proprietary cleaners, but you will find then quite expensive and possibly difficult to get.

[drini]

damn this watch is going to be on fire, diesel to loosen the parts and lighter fuel to clean the other parts :)

[ricardopalamino]

The dial is another story . Any cleaning of it is a delicate process and should not be undertaken aggressively . I have have damaged as many as I have cleaned in my learning curve .  I am not offering any suggestions , but I do clean some using a light oil on a cotton swap first , then immediately use warm water with a bit of dish soap to clean off the oil and dirt using a very soft woman's make-up brush , rinse in warm water and dry it , also immediately ,  then set it under a light bulb for about 10 minutes and not too close to the bulb .  Once again , I am not recommending any method  . You may want to leave the dial alone as many like the original patina , and since this was your grandfathers , you may want to leave it as is .

Edited January 11, 2016 by ricardopalamino

[drini]

hello all, after awaiting one month finally was able to take the watch apart.

cleaned as much as i could and started to put it together but have a problem with the escape wheel.

it is out of alignment, as given in the picture

When i adjust the baring for it to be straight i do have difficulty moving the main barrel, but once the escape wheel is not touching any other wheel the mechanism moves quite freely.

 

Can you please tell me if the pinion of the wheel are broken

 

or if im putting it in the wrong place 

 

regards and thanks

[jeffc83]

Based on your picture, the escape wheel is fine:)  Just looks like it is not aligned properly.  Good luck, you're doing a hell of a lot better than I did with my first, lol. (and second, third, fourth, etc)  The only thing I got down right away was how to clean broken watch parts, hahahahaha:D

Edited February 11, 2016 by jeffc83

[drini]

I tried last night to put it straight but no luck, i also tried it without the other wheels and the result was that the "escape wheel" rotated but if i tipped it from left to right like in "ship movement" it immediately got out of the sockets.

Is it possible that the jewels are worn, especially the bottom one? this will make the wheel to not make properly contact with the top jewel and thus getting out of alignment and not spinning freely.

regards

[Geo]

I really don't think there is anything wrong. Sometimes it can take quite a while to get things to fall into place, especially if the bridge location dowels are a bit on the tight side. Try again, only this time keep a very gentle pressure on the bridge with a piece of pegwood, while using an old oiler with a bend on the end to gently ease the pivot into place.

When you eventually get everything in place, use your puffer to blow air onto the periphery of the escape wheel and the the train should spin freely. Now tighten the the screws ever so gently and do the above test to ensure everything is still OK before fully tightening.

You will manage, the longest I have taken was best part of an hour on a Roamer movement!

[jeffc83]

@drini - Also try using a toothpick if needed.  Geo is spot on....something like this could possibly take an hour, depending on many factors, lol.  I once spent 43 minutes doing the same but was the intermediate wheel...it just didn't want to fall into place but it finally did.  Best of luck and take a breather in between if needed!  I've broken many by not doing that.

Edited February 12, 2016 by jeffc83

[drini]

hello all, after much fight with flying springs, screws(thank fully didn't lose any), i managed to fit the escape wheel. Problem was with the second wheel, it had not entered correctly in its whole and due to that the escape wheel was also out of balance.

As of this moment wheel bridge is tightened and all wheels spin without any difficulty, escape palates after some trouble with balancing now is OK and tested.

Key less mechanism and crown mechanism are working as they should.

 

i do have one last problem though, when i inserted the balance wheel into the watch it does not keep on spinning.

when i try to spin it i get the feeling like it touching something but due to tight fitting i cannot see it.

the condition of the balance wheel is as follow i don't know if it equally spread.

also i don't know if i do have to twist it when setting it in place, it has some markings which i don't understand

 

 

[Geo]

Have a read of my post in this thread regarding installation of balance wheel, it may help you.

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2847-install-balance-wheel/?hl=%2Bfitting+%2Bbalance#entry27948

[ricardopalamino]

Good description in the fitting of the balance Geo , as it seems that Drini has done a very good job to this point but has to fit the roller jewel properly into the pallet fork .

 

Oh what a feeling when that baby start to tick...

[drini]

hello, thank you for the post.

i did what was suggested in the post checked the escape fork was Ok physically.

from my analysis i think the problem is with the location of the escape fork.

i don't think i have putted it correctly even though it looks like. is it OK as shown below??

As for the balance wheel i cannot move it as mentioned in the post, it has object all around it.

this doxa is very tight and working without magnifying glass or lenses is giving me headache.

 

 

 

 

[ricardopalamino]

The pallet looks OK . When you put the balance does it move only to the right and stop when you release it , or only to the left and stop when you release it . If so then the roller jewel is not centered in the pallet fork but to one side other . Read Geo's post again ...that's why he says to ensure that the jewel in the balance is further to the right , or further to the left to replace it...depending on the position of the fork between the posts . 

I will sometimes position the balance and if it goes left but comes back and stops , I will gently [you don't want to break or dislodge the jewel] , grasp the balance wheel , lift it a bit and turn it right to place the jewel in the fork...then use a blower or shake or nudge the balance wheel to see if it starts running freely . 

  You are definitely close at this point . Just be careful with the balance .

[drini]

hello, when i put the balance wheel it stops on both sides, even if I rotate to left it will come back and stop same to the right, it will come back and stop.

Forgive me for ma ignorance but what jewel should i put in the fork?

[jdm]

hello, when i put the balance wheel it stops on both sides, even if I rotate to left it will come back and stop same to the right, it will come back and stop.

Forgive me for ma ignorance but what jewel should i put in the fork?

 

The impulse jewel. You cannot see it, you have to lift the balance wheel a little and turn into the direction the for is resting. After it's engaged the watch will start running by itself naturally.

[ramrod]

your picture of the balance wheel - look at the three o'clock position . you can see the impulse jewel there. it fits into the fork on the pallet. you might have that jewel to one side of the pallet instead of centered where it needs to be for the impulse jewel will swing freely.

[drini]

hello all, was to tired yesterday to replay.

thank you for the info, i did re-strip the watch.Took out the escape fork, wheel bridge and the 2nd, 3rd and escape wheel to have a much better view.

i can verify that the impulse jewel is resting between the two pivot that are touched by the escape fork.

so the position of the jewel is correct but the balance wheel does not rotate properly. the yellow crown is always tilted to one side.

Due to this whenever I have never seen any rotation like the one in the videos of Mark.

Any sugetions what may be the problem and how to fix?