Roland Ranfft RIP

[Jon]

Hi guys,

 

As many of you are aware Roland Ranfft passed away earlier this year which is a massive loss to the world of watchmaking.

I used his database of watch movements on a weekly, sometimes a daily basis to gain info on mainspring sizes, hand pipe sizes, and the like.

I've also bought a lot of watches from the auction part of the site and when I say a lot, probably close to £5000 worth of watches over the past three or four years. I found buying from the site was a lot more pleasurable and friendly than some eBay deals I've done and was never disappointed by what I received and a lot of the time absolute bargains. What I've found over the last three or four years is that chronograph watches, both hand-wound and automatics have increased in value about three-fold in that short space of time, as well as some automatics I've bought from the site, as well as from German and Swiss eBay. Some Valjoux 7750s I bought four years ago for about £150 from the Ranfft site will now fetch close to £400 to £500. Not sure why chronographs have risen in price so quickly. I bought some Landeron 51s and 248s chronograph watches in working order for £90 four years ago and now they'll fetch at least £300 to £400. What on earth has happened for them to increase by so much? Does anyone know? Watchmaking tools have gone the same way. I was buying JKA Feintaster bench micrometers from Germany and Switzerland three or four years ago for £90 and now they'll go for £400 to £500. I saw one go the other day for over £1000 from a seller called 'watchmaker-lathe' from the Czech Republic who seems to have an endless supply of quality watchmaker tools. I think he's got a magic bag he pulls them from!... lol. Worth checking out what he sells, although they go for top dollar prices.

Anyway, I feel I'm rambling a bit and wanted to tell you all if you didn't already know that the Roland Ranfft website, 'Pink Pages' is available as an archive at this address: https://web.archive.org/web/20230305223353/http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk

The search box doesn't work, but all 221 pages of watch movement details are available which is a bonus. Hopefully, someone will pick up the baton and run with it and resurrect the website, let's hope. Until then, at least the amazing work that Roland achieved hasn't been lost. Share the love and spread the news this is still available. Much love and respect to Roland Ranfft, you'll be sadly missed! RIP Roland...

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, Jon said:

Hi guys,

 

As many of you are aware Roland Ranfft passed away earlier this year which is a massive loss to the world of watchmaking.

I used his database of watch movements on a weekly, sometimes a daily basis to gain info on mainspring sizes, hand pipe sizes, and the like.

I've also bought a lot of watches from the auction part of the site and when I say a lot, probably close to £5000 worth of watches over the past three or four years. I found buying from the site was a lot more pleasurable and friendly than some eBay deals I've done and was never disappointed by what I received and a lot of the time absolute bargains. What I've found over the last three or four years is that chronograph watches, both hand-wound and automatics have increased in value about three-fold in that short space of time, as well as some automatics I've bought from the site, as well as from German and Swiss eBay. Some Valjoux 7750s I bought four years ago for about £150 from the Ranfft site will now fetch close to £400 to £500. Not sure why chronographs have risen in price so quickly. I bought some Landeron 51s and 248s chronograph watches in working order for £90 four years ago and now they'll fetch at least £300 to £400. What on earth has happened for them to increase by so much? Does anyone know? Watchmaking tools have gone the same way. I was buying JKA Feintaster bench micrometers from Germany and Switzerland three or four years ago for £90 and now they'll go for £400 to £500. I saw one go the other day for over £1000 from a seller called 'watchmaker-lathe' from the Czech Republic who seems to have an endless supply of quality watchmaker tools. I think he's got a magic bag he pulls them from!... lol. Worth checking out what he sells, although they go for top dollar prices.

Anyway, I feel I'm rambling a bit and wanted to tell you all if you didn't already know that the Roland Ranfft website, 'Pink Pages' is available as an archive at this address: https://web.archive.org/web/20230305223353/http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk

The search box doesn't work, but all 221 pages of watch movement details are available which is a bonus. Hopefully, someone will pick up the baton and run with it and resurrect the website, let's hope. Until then, at least the amazing work that Roland achieved hasn't been lost. Share the love and spread the news this is still available. Much love and respect to Roland Ranfft, you'll be sadly missed! RIP Roland...

Thanks Jon , i really love your sideline posts about the community.  As regards to the prices, even in my short time of 2 years I've noticed a dramatic increase in both new and pre owned watch related items. We know the price tag of everything in the UK has gone through the roof, but i think that watch repairing is the new in-thing .

[RichardHarris123]

I think it may die down again, of course I could be wrong.  Two reasons, firstly, people probably took up watch repair during lock down and will lose interest.  Secondly, all commodities have ups and downs, regression towards the mean?

[JackH]

2 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I think it may die down again, of course I could be wrong.  Two reasons, firstly, people probably took up watch repair during lock down and will lose interest.  Secondly, all commodities have ups and downs, regression towards the mean?

I hope so... It is frustrating to finally obtain a good Jacot tool to find out that the Horotec burnisher/files go for $200 - $300. I am sorry to hear about Roland Ranfft. His site would always turn up with good information during my searches. I wonder low long that archive will hold the information?

[Kalanag]

Just for reference:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/27242-ranfft-database-is-down/?do=findComment&comment=237667

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I think it may die down again, of course I could be wrong.  Two reasons, firstly, people probably took up watch repair during lock down and will lose interest.  Secondly, all commodities have ups and downs, regression towards the mean?

Everyone in the UK wanted a dog during Covid, the price of a puppy increased fourfold almost overnight, a lot of the poor little buggers ended up in a kennel when it was all over. 

[rossjackson01]

Jon

I think someone has begun a replacement ranfft database using the ranfft data. https://ranfft.org./

Regarding your comment about watch prices. I too have noticed that watch prices have increased nearly 3 fold in the 2 years I have been enjoying the hobby. I now hardly ever purchase a watch, except low end for spares. Even they are at least double what I originally paid.

On the plus side. I notice that the prices of tools, mainly Chinese, have decreased. These are the only tools I can afford.  They do however appear to do all I require. Swiss are out of my league.

Saving up for a Chinese jewelling tool with dies. Half way there.

Edited January 5 by rossjackson01
Spelling, Grammar, more information

[JohnR725]

12 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

As regards to the prices, even in my short time of 2 years I've noticed a dramatic increase in both new and pre owned watch related items. We know the price tag of everything in the UK has gone through the roof, but i think that watch repairing is the new in-thing .

world pricing of things does tend to be interesting. If you look at older catalogs even from the 60s for watch repair tools and compare the prices today they would actually be a good investment because they've gone up so much. But ever since the plague things have gone up quite a bit. I was noticing of the vintage black L&R cleaning machine has gone up how much? Used to be can practically give those away that's how I got mine because there were no jars it was considered worthless and now there $1000 on eBay. Through there aren't a lot of companies manufacturing watchmaking cleaning machines anymore..

how thinking of the outrageous prices you should calculate out what this would cost today at an equivalent price in other words take the price of 1946 in figure out what it would cost today and well some things have gone down in price haven't they.

oh look what a few years does the price is already gone up

different cleaning machine 1950 and what do they cost today on eBay?

okay finally found the cleaning machine is looking for

modern email prices seem interesting

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

world pricing of things does tend to be interesting. If you look at older catalogs even from the 60s for watch repair tools and compare the prices today they would actually be a good investment because they've gone up so much. But ever since the plague things have gone up quite a bit. I was noticing of the vintage black L&R cleaning machine has gone up how much? Used to be can practically give those away that's how I got mine because there were no jars it was considered worthless and now there $1000 on eBay. Through there aren't a lot of companies manufacturing watchmaking cleaning machines anymore..

how thinking of the outrageous prices you should calculate out what this would cost today at an equivalent price in other words take the price of 1946 in figure out what it would cost today and well some things have gone down in price haven't they.

oh look what a few years does the price is already gone up

different cleaning machine 1950 and what do they cost today on eBay?

okay finally found the cleaning machine is looking for

modern email prices seem interesting

New inventions are always expensive,  i remember when video recorders came out and microwave cookers. My wife wife bought her mum one of the first ones on sale £500 the same item is now around £50 . Granted the quality is different but it does the same job, probably not for as long, sure thats the Downside of something made in country of mass produced rubbish.

33 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Jon

I think someone has begun a replacement ranfft database using the ranfft data. https://ranfft.org./

Regarding your comment about watch prices. I too have noticed that watch prices have increased nearly 3 fold in the 2 years I have been enjoying the hobby. I now hardly ever purchase a watch, except low end for spares. Even they are at least double what I originally paid.

On the plus side. I notice that the prices of tools, mainly Chinese, have decreased. These are the only tools I can afford.  They do however appear to do all I require. Swiss are out of my league.

Saving up for a Chinese jewelling tool with dies. Half way there.

I think i read somewhere that its a famlly member that is recreating a new Ranfft site. I've been using it since the other one stopped functioning, its no way near as good, not as easy to navigate and the images are incomplete.  I'm going back to using the old archived version, its a good idea to make up your own directory to refer to when searching for a calibre as the search function doesn't  work. Write down a list of the all the brands alphabetically with the relevant page numbers alongside. A bit time consuming to knock it up but once you have it made, a search will be almost as quick as before.

[mikepilk]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

world pricing of things does tend to be interesting. If you look at older catalogs even from the 60s for watch repair tools and compare the prices today they would actually be a good investment because they've gone up so much. But ever since the plague things have gone up quite a bit. I was noticing of the vintage black L&R cleaning machine has gone up how much? Used to be can practically give those away that's how I got mine because there were no jars it was considered worthless and now there $1000 on eBay. Through there aren't a lot of companies manufacturing watchmaking cleaning machines anymore..

how thinking of the outrageous prices you should calculate out what this would cost today at an equivalent price in other words take the price of 1946 in figure out what it would cost today and well some things have gone down in price haven't they.

According to an on-online calculator, the Precision Printer at $490, would be nearly $8000 today. 

And the 1950, $82.50 cleaner, about $1000.

It's amazing how technology has got so cheap.

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

New inventions are always expensive,  i remember when video recorders came out and microwave cookers. My wife wife bought her mum one of the first ones on sale £500 the same item is now around £50 . Granted the quality is different but it does the same job, probably not for as long, sure thats the Downside of something made in country of mass produced rubbish.

I disagree with you about the quality @Neverenoughwatches. Old electrical appliances like tv's, microwaves, washing machines were always going wrong. Most would only last a couple of years. Now they rarely seem to go wrong ( disregarding the ultra cheapo ones), despite being much cheaper. I only usually change them to upgrade.   

[Neverenoughwatches]

14 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

According to an on-online calculator, the Precision Printer at $490, would be nearly $8000 today. 

And the 1950, $82.50 cleaner, about $1000.

Prices dont compare with wages at the time, my dad was earning around £500/ year in the 50s, average wage these days around 35k 

[RichardHarris123]

Part of the problem is not comparing like for like.  People buy cheap items and then say that the old stuff was better, no they just bought rubbish.  An old mentor of mine advised "always buy the best you can afford, that way you won't be disappointed ", I have already followed his advice. 

[eccentric59]

Before we start reminiscing about walking to school in 2 feet of snow, or telling each other to get off our respective lawns, let me throw this out there ... "Is it better that bread cost a dollar and you have a dollar, or that bread cost a dime, but you don't have a dime?"

 

For the record, I took the bus to school and you all are welcome to walk across my lawn. Just be careful where you step, we have two dogs.  

[mikepilk]

3 minutes ago, eccentric59 said:

Before we start reminiscing about walking to school in 2 feet of snow

Not 2ft, but sometime in snow .  I walked alone about 1.5 mile to the junior school at the other side of town (from when I was about 6-10). Children cannot do that these days as everyone is afraid of the bogey man, and I think that modern children must dissolve if they get wet.

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

video recorders

yes the interesting generation of people who lived through all this newfangled technology some of which is no longer with us like the video recorder. The modern generation that would have a total failure to grasp the evolution of technology as they have their smart phones and probably can't grasp anything beyond that. Then yes I do remember my first video recorder slightly used beta recorder.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Prices dont compare with wages at the time, my dad was earning around £500/ year in the 50s, average wage these days around 35k

yes the problem pricing well what would a dollar bill by 20 years ago versus today the calculators will do that. But you throw in labor costs and things get really interesting and don't make a lot of sense necessarily at all

for instance one of my friends at his grandfather's notebook of all the watch repair jobs and how much he charged. This was at a watch and clock collectors meeting he was talking about his grandfather gave a lecture. All the people marveled at how inexpensive watch repair was back then versus today except? The problem was I took the price and back then watches were serviced on a yearly basis because the cases were not sealed up tight and they were using organic oils. So to multiply that early servicing times five to correspond to the modern servicing well the watchmaker was doing really really well because the modern servicing price I'd think was way more than what it would cost to get a Rolex wrist. So as soon as you throw in wages to things get way more interesting

and of course technology changes a lot of stuff. The timing machine for instance even when I started watch repair there wasn't any of that newfangled digital stuff and the cost of a brand-new timing machine was astronomically expensive. I remember seeing one in a material house and asked if the price was a joke because it just seems so expensive I knows more than $1000 but I might've been several thousand dollars and it seemed really expensive on the other hand that particular machine the B200 has an incredibly long life and what a ran it least 30 some years before you need to replace some of the electrical components. So yes technology is changed a lot of things

so yes it makes a really hard to compare things other then the price of everything is gone up and the price of used horological stuff on eBay seems to have gone up by quite a bit.

[Neverenoughwatches]

41 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I do remember my first video recorder slightly used beta recorder.

 

Here in the UK the Beta video players and tapes market didn't do very well for some reason ? then it all became just VHS.

[RichardHarris123]

15 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Here in the UK the Beta video players and tapes market didn't do very well for some reason

Read this about video recorder's

https://kodakdigitizing.com/blogs/news/what-is-the-difference-between-betamax-and-vhs

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, eccentric59 said:

Before we start reminiscing about walking to school in 2 feet of snow, or telling each other to get off our respective lawns, let me throw this out there ... "Is it better that bread cost a dollar and you have a dollar, or that bread cost a dime, but you don't have a dime?"

 

For the record, I took the bus to school and you all are welcome to walk across my lawn. Just be careful where you step, we have two dogs.  

I favour the idea that i have a dollar and with it i can buy the ingredients to make a 100 loaves and sell them for 2 dimes each.  If i come visit i will bring a pooper scooper and a bag of doggie treats.

[watchweasol]

Hi do remember about the same time Philips brought out a disc recorder, very good reproduction but expensive. Needless to mention it did not last long in the face of Betamax and VHS.

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi do remember about the same time Philips brought out a disc recorder, very good reproduction but expensive. Needless to mention it did not last long in the face of Betamax and VHS.

Sounds like the start of digital technology for the domestic. 

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Here in the UK the Beta video players and tapes market didn't do very well for some reason ? then it all became just VHS.

 

4 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Read this about video recorder's

https://kodakdigitizing.com/blogs/news/what-is-the-difference-between-betamax-and-vhs

interesting link coded up above but I found one that for the most part I liked better down below.

so the link below is nice pictures basically beta was better in recording sound even the manufacture the cassette tape is outstanding. But the HS you cram more video on the tape which is a selling point because a lot of people didn't care about the quality difference or any of that stuff.

Then towards the very bottom of the link above which I think does a little better job unfortunately Sony didn't want to share and you had the license. Which limited the number of people to just a few manufacturers. Although lots accompanies initially made beta tape until VHS came along which is basically open source and that was the end of beta.

Well kind of the end I do know that a lot of studio recorders were using beta tapes. Or for instance the Boeing company used to have a surplus store south of Seattle all sorts of interesting things would show up there including when they dumped all their archive grade studio tapes in really nice plastic boxes. So he didn't get quite as many hours out of the tape because they're all shorter works are much heavier tape it still was really nice tape.

Then of course they all went away and at least for a brief period you could even buy DVD recorders. I have a Panasonic VHS and DVD recorder. I think is getting like six hours per disc. Then those discs were so much nicer to store than the tapes. But of course all of that is gone now a thing of the past.

oh and thinking of discs one of the retailers in the USA I don't know if they are worldwide offices Best Buy is no longer going to sell DVD or Blu-ray discs. So it looks like discs are going away also. although I think some of the other online retailers will probably sell them but it's an indication of their time is limited also.

https://www.zoopy.com/vhs-vs-betamax/

 

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

interesting link coded up above but I found one that for the most part I liked better down below.

so the link below is nice pictures basically beta was better in recording sound even the manufacture the cassette tape is outstanding. But the HS you cram more video on the tape which is a selling point because a lot of people didn't care about the quality difference or any of that stuff.

Then towards the very bottom of the link above which I think does a little better job unfortunately Sony didn't want to share and you had the license. Which limited the number of people to just a few manufacturers. Although lots accompanies initially made beta tape until VHS came along which is basically open source and that was the end of beta.

Well kind of the end I do know that a lot of studio recorders were using beta tapes. Or for instance the Boeing company used to have a surplus store south of Seattle all sorts of interesting things would show up there including when they dumped all their archive grade studio tapes in really nice plastic boxes. So he didn't get quite as many hours out of the tape because they're all shorter works are much heavier tape it still was really nice tape.

Then of course they all went away and at least for a brief period you could even buy DVD recorders. I have a Panasonic VHS and DVD recorder. I think is getting like six hours per disc. Then those discs were so much nicer to store than the tapes. But of course all of that is gone now a thing of the past.

oh and thinking of discs one of the retailers in the USA I don't know if they are worldwide offices Best Buy is no longer going to sell DVD or Blu-ray discs. So it looks like discs are going away also. although I think some of the other online retailers will probably sell them but it's an indication of their time is limited also.

https://www.zoopy.com/vhs-vs-betamax/

 

 

 

Interesting I'd never looked into the whys and wherefores of their competition . Seems like another example of cost winning the day over quality, an attitude that grew in the 70s.

[SpringMangler]

High end video cameras used a Sony format called Betacam, which was initially based on the cassette size of the Betamax but a much higher resolution format. 

In audio recording Betamax was used for digital mastering solutions, as Sony already had presence in recording studios with their digital multitrack machines. 

As you say, it's a case of good marketing beating a better product.