Another jewelling question

[Neverenoughwatches]

Eyup watch peeps, i hope we are all well and have enjoyed our weekend. I'd like to show off my new jewelling tool if i may and pose a question or two to add to our previous discussion last week regarding reaming holes with the Seitz.  My lovely post lady delivered this Marshall jewelling tool and set this morning.  Its not extensive but it is complete inc. reamers and in great condition barring a little touching up. This is my first play at enlarging jewel holes so re-reading last weeks discussion and applying the information make a big difference to my understanding now. Now ive toyed ive realised that there is 2 cutting surfaces and both are usable. I dont think that the use of both sides of the reamer was mentioned last week. So my first question would be what the effect on the hole would be if the reamer is used to cut both clockwise and anticlockwise during the same hole enlargement.  Or is the best approach to cut entirely clockwise or entirely anti clockwise ( I'm thinking this is better ) . And if that could minimise or increase the asymmetric wobble produced while cutting, which tbh I'm not really noticing ( i assume Endeavor noticed it more because of the large plate being cut ). So having the two cutting surfaces gives us twice the life extent of the reamer. This brings me to my next question of how to sharpen the reamers in a non professional workshop. I appreciate any replies and hopefully this helps other new to jewelling members. 

[oldhippy]

The reamer is the same size both sides so it makes no difference which way you cut. They must have had a hell of a lot of use or the metal must be quite soft if you need to sharpen them, when I sharpen graver's I use an Arkansas stone with a little oil, that should do the trick, you can buy very small stones. 

[nickelsilver]

The reamers I have (Chatons SA watch size, Bergeon in clock size) have relief ground in on one side, which is to be the cutting side. I would be surprised if there is no relief on yours... but- they can cut without it, just not very freely. If you look at the pic, the relief is ground almost to the flat face; the little "land" there keeps it from digging in, and the relief lets it take a free cut. I think you'll find they do cut better going the right way. I have yet to need to sharpen one, but you would have to grind the entire taper in a uniform manner or it won't cut at all. Tricky work. These are called D-bit reamers in the machining world if you want to Google it, lots of info out there.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by nickelsilver

[Neverenoughwatches]

49 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

The reamer is the same size both sides so it makes no difference which way you cut. They must have had a hell of a lot of use or the metal must be quite soft if you need to sharpen them, when I sharpen graver's I use an Arkansas stone with a little oil, that should do the trick, you can buy very small stones. 

Thanks OH, i just wondered if cutting in both directions made any difference.  They are all still sharp , just one looks like someone has tried to sharpen it and not made a good job of it. 

31 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

The reamers I have (Chatons SA watch size, Bergeon in clock size) have relief ground in on one side, which is to be the cutting side. I would be surprised if there is no relief on yours... but- they can cut without it, just not very freely. If you look at the pic, the relief is ground almost to the flat face; the little "land" there keeps it from digging in, and the relief lets it take a free cut. I think you'll find they do cut better going the right way. I have yet to need to sharpen one, but you would have to grind the entire taper in a uniform manner or it won't cut at all. Tricky work. These are called D-bit reamers in the machining world if you want to Google it, lots of info out there.

 

Thanks Nicklesilver,  mine doesn't have the relief, the backside is completely curved. They are taking shavings off in both directions though and cut up to the cylinder end. I wondered if it was possible to just hone the flat to sharpen them, very tricky as you say, its a compound taper running both along its length and its thickness from top to bottom. 

[SpringMangler]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup watch peeps, i hope we are all well and have enjoyed our weekend. I'd like to show off my new jewelling tool if i may and pose a question or two to add to our previous discussion last week regarding reaming holes with the Seitz.  My lovely post lady delivered this Marshall jewelling tool and set this morning.  Its not extensive but it is complete inc. reamers and in great condition barring a little touching up. This is my first play at enlarging jewel holes so re-reading last weeks discussion and applying the information make a big difference to my understanding now. Now ive toyed ive realised that there is 2 cutting surfaces and both are usable. I dont think that the use of both sides of the reamer was mentioned last week. So my first question would be what the effect on the hole would be if the reamer is used to cut both clockwise and anticlockwise during the same hole enlargement.  Or is the best approach to cut entirely clockwise or entirely anti clockwise ( I'm thinking this is better ) . And if that could minimise or increase the asymmetric wobble produced while cutting, which tbh I'm not really noticing ( i assume Endeavor noticed it more because of the large plate being cut ). So having the two cutting surfaces gives us twice the life extent of the reamer. This brings me to my next question of how to sharpen the reamers in a non professional workshop. I appreciate any replies and hopefully this helps other new to jewelling members. 

Think I nearly bid on this one but didn't remember until after it had finished. Did the same with a Seitz one last night.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, SpringMangler said:

Think I nearly bid on this one but didn't remember until after it had finished. Did the same with a Seitz one last night.  

Ah i saw the Seitz last night as well, it went pretty cheap.  Nobody bid on the one i have and the starting price was quite low so pretty pleased with the purchase. These are always a bit of a gamble with the condition of the pushers etc, worth paying a bit more for something thats been looked after by a good pro.

[nickelsilver]

You can stone the flat a little bit, but really they need to be ground along the length. The flat is at the centerline of the tool, but generally they are made just a hair above, like 0.02mm. If ground below, they can start behaving strangely, even cutting oversize.

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

You can stone the flat a little bit, but really they need to be ground along the length. The flat is at the centerline of the tool, but generally they are made just a hair above, like 0.02mm. If ground below, they can start behaving strangely, even cutting oversize.

Thanks again. Watched a few videos about making d bit reamers, nothing small or tapered but i did find that there is a hand tool for filing the flat. Mostly bigger stuff than used for jewel holes.

[VWatchie]

Interesting questions @Neverenoughwatches! I never thought about this, so I quickly looked at my Seitz jewelling tool reamers and they all have the "relief ground in on one side" as @nickelsilverdescribes and shows (thanks!). I thought this might be interesting knowledge for anyone looking to buy a jewelling tool. Seems like we should stay away from trying to sharpen the reamers, huh? If really needed and I already have a Seitz jewelling tool, I'd just order a new Seitz reamer instead. Cousins have them for £9 each.