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Help with balance spring

whathaveidone
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whathaveidone Member

whathaveidone

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Working on an Omega 490 and when installing the balance wheel it wasn't moving freely.  When I checked the spring it was tilted at an angle.  This isn't normal, right?  Any ideas as to why?  The wheel itself appears to be level.  *After cleaning and cap jewel oiling I installed the balance wheel and tested it. Spun/oscillated freely. 

PXL_20230507_212723530~2.jpg

PXL_20230507_212718194~2.jpg

Edited by whathaveidone
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Paul80 WRT Addict

Paul80

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Are you sure both pivots are present, to me the wheel also looks to be not level.  With both jewels removed can you see both pivots through the jewel hole ?

I would go with one of the pivots is missing 

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

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6 hours ago, whathaveidone said:

Working on an Omega 490 and when installing the balance wheel it wasn't moving freely.  When I checked the spring it was tilted at an angle.  This isn't normal, right?  Any ideas as to why?  The wheel itself appears to be level.  *After cleaning and cap jewel oiling I installed the balance wheel and tested it. Spun/oscillated freely. 

PXL_20230507_212723530~2.jpg

PXL_20230507_212718194~2.jpg

Usually a twist somewhere on the spring. If the spring look flat when unassembled then the likely cause is at one end of the spring . The spring is held fixed at two points the collet and the stud, so a twist at either end can make  the hairspring raise up like this. In my experience its almost always at the stud end unless someone has been faffying around with the collet. Mostly due to the balance assembly being removed a few times. The weight of the balance wheel tucking down where the hairspring is pinned at the stud. If handled roughly and stretched this is where the twist can happen. 

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

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28 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

Are you sure both pivots are present, to me the wheel also looks to be not level.  With both jewels removed can you see both pivots through the jewel hole ?

I would go with one of the pivots is missing 

 

7 hours ago, whathaveidone said:

Working on an Omega 490 and when installing the balance wheel it wasn't moving freely.  When I checked the spring it was tilted at an angle.  This isn't normal, right?  Any ideas as to why?  The wheel itself appears to be level.  *After cleaning and cap jewel oiling I installed the balance wheel and tested it. Spun/oscillated freely. 

PXL_20230507_212723530~2.jpg

PXL_20230507_212718194~2.jpg

As paul quite rightly says the problem looks more to do with the balance wheel not installed correctly or a broken pivot.

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KarlvonKoln Distinguished Member

KarlvonKoln

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If you check the pivots, and they look fine, then during installation I would investigate whether the stud needs to be deeper into its hole in the carrier, or if the spring has been deformed.   I'm with Neverenoughwatches on that one.  I just got done working on an old Illinois 18s which, when I first opened it, looked like the stud projected rather far up and out of the balance cock.  More than most.  When I reassembled after cleaning, it would not run right until I had pressed the stud all the way in, right up to the base of the hairspring.  Once the stud was sticking up out of the top, she ran like a dream!  The hairspring was not twisted on this watch, but I think it may have been fitted with a stud which was meant for a thicker balance cock.  I see weird things on some of these antique watches.
You never can tell sometimes.  The watch wants what it wants.  On most, the stud needs to be level with the surface; on some the stud is so short that it comes up just below the surface; and on still a few others it is best if it sticks up like a stubby periscope.  If the pivots and balance and its jewels are all good, I'd look hard at how the stud is mounted, as well as the rest of the hairspring to see if it has been twisted.

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

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35 minutes ago, whathaveidone said:

Hi all, 

 

thank you so much for your input.  Removed the hairspring and it was twisted - too advanced for me to make any adjustments.  I'll try and source a balance complete or just the hairspring.    

 

36 minutes ago, whathaveidone said:

Hi all, 

 

thank you so much for your input.  Removed the hairspring and it was twisted - too advanced for me to make any adjustments.  I'll try and source a balance complete or just the hairspring.    

 

36 minutes ago, whathaveidone said:

Hi all, 

 

thank you so much for your input.  Removed the hairspring and it was twisted - too advanced for me to make any adjustments.  I'll try and source a balance complete or just the hairspring.    

If you are sourcing a replacement part you have nothing to lose attempting a repair. If you consider this part having value then practice on something less so first.

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HectorLooi Distinguished Member

HectorLooi

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3 hours ago, whathaveidone said:

Removed the hairspring and it was twisted

When you say removed, did you remove it from the balance cock and then take it off the balance staff?

If you did that, could you post some photos?

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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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On 5/8/2023 at 12:21 PM, whathaveidone said:

Removed the hairspring and it was twisted - too advanced for me to make any adjustments.  I'll try and source a balance complete or just the hairspring

Omega watches typically have a very soft hairsprings easy to twist if you don't have a lot of experience with working on watches. Omega watches also have the problem of being an Omega watch which means parts can be expensive. Then typically swapping hairsprings is not in your best interest. So basically you're looking at a balance complete.

first link because I like to see a picture of what people are working on. Second link the cross reference for balance completes at least there's more than one.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Omega_490

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=[^[D^IV

 

 

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whathaveidone Member

whathaveidone

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49 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Omega watches typically have a very soft hairsprings easy to twist if you don't have a lot of experience with working on watches. Omega watches also have the problem of being an Omega watch which means parts can be expensive. Then typically swapping hairsprings is not in your best interest. So basically you're looking at a balance complete.

first link because I like to see a picture of what people are working on. Second link the cross reference for balance completes at least there's more than one.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Omega_490

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=[^[D^IV

 

 

So I understand, the second link lists alternative balance completes?  That would be great since the 500.1327 is difficult to find and about 50% of what I paid for the watch.  

On 5/8/2023 at 4:10 PM, HectorLooi said:

When you say removed, did you remove it from the balance cock and then take it off the balance staff?

If you did that, could you post some photos?

I did remove from the balance cock and staff.  But before that I mistakenly tried to unscrew the regulator spring when my screwdriver slipped and destroyed the spring.  

PXL_20230516_154231678.jpg

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Posted (edited)

A new balance complete is the way to go.

In case the balance wheel got hit by the screwdriver, its out of poise now.

On this forum, you can learn rebuilding it to a balance complete. 

Regds

Edited by Nucejoe
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