How do I remove this? And help with identification

[albertopveiga]

Hi everyone!

I recently got a small Meister-Anker that I’m servicing mostly for the sake of practice. When disassembling it, I came across one of the wheels which goes through the plate, and I’m not sure how to disassemble. I don’t want to break it! Anyone could advise?

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, albertopveiga said:

Hi everyone!

I recently got a small Meister-Anker that I’m servicing mostly for the sake of practice. When disassembling it, I came across one of the wheels which goes through the plate, and I’m not sure how to disassemble. I don’t want to break it! Anyone could advise?

 

Hi albert. Be careful with these, a second hand pinion drive wheel. I broke the first one i encountered. The wheel is a press fit and can be tight. There is a presto tool that fits between the arms of the wheel. I found it easier to remove the wheel on the underside.

[Kalanag]

Presto tool for 5-spoke wheels

UMF 24

Edited September 9, 2022 by Kalanag

[Jon]

Just make sure you pry off the wheel from the central hub, otherwise you'll bend the wheel removing it. When the wheel is removed check that it is totally flat before assembling back on with a staking tool.

Also, the wheel you need to remove is the one with four spokes, not the five spoke wheel, the five spoke wheel is part of the wheel train. So, when staking back the four spoke wheel it is critical you get the height correct so it engages with the sweep second pinion exactly in the middle of it 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Jon

[gbyleveldt]

7 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Presto tool for 5-spoke wheels

UMF 24

That 5 spoke Presto tool has been out of stock for months now. It shows stock coming soon, then the date shifts again lol. I’ve been using @Jonmethod above, but I would really prefer to use the Presto tool. I have a few very expensive watches coming in - hopefully that Presto tool is in stock soon.

[oldhippy]

If you do not have the correct tool my advice would be leave it alone, you could easily damage the wheel or break the pivot.  

[mikepilk]

As a home hobbyist, rather than buy the 5 and 6 spoke tools, I bought the Bergeon 6016 tool. Useful for removing wheels, hands, rollers etc

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

If you do not have the correct tool my advice would be leave it alone, you could easily damage the wheel or break the pivot.  

Agree with OH, I did on my first encounter with one fortunately it was a relatively cheap watch that now has no second hand. The 17CS. English Smiths watches which i have a few of t is very common to see this. I wont touch them to service until i have the correct tool.

5 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

That 5 spoke Presto tool has been out of stock for months now. It shows stock coming soon, then the date shifts again lol. I’ve been using @Jonmethod above, but I would really prefer to use the Presto tool. I have a few very expensive watches coming in - hopefully that Presto tool is in stock soon.

I managed to remove one by prying from underneath, it seems a slightly safer option. But i would really like the tool for it

 

[dadistic]

12 hours ago, mikepilk said:

As a home hobbyist, rather than buy the 5 and 6 spoke tools, I bought the Bergeon 6016 tool. Useful for removing wheels, hands, rollers etc

That's an interesting tool. How do you use it?  Flat and round side, which side goes against which part? Sorry, I'm a bit dense, just not able to visualize how this is used.

 

[albertopveiga]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:28 PM, Jon said:

Just make sure you pry off the wheel from the central hub, otherwise you'll bend the wheel removing it. When the wheel is removed check that it is totally flat before assembling back on with a staking tool.

Also, the wheel you need to remove is the one with four spokes, not the five spoke wheel, the five spoke wheel is part of the wheel train. So, when staking back the four spoke wheel it is critical you get the height correct so it engages with the sweep second pinion exactly in the middle of it 

Thank you everyone for the great answers and advice!! This did the trick for me, lacking a better tool. I think I haven’t broken anything… but I will know more when assembling

Thank you!!

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, dadistic said:

That's an interesting tool. How do you use it?  Flat and round side, which side goes against which part? Sorry, I'm a bit dense, just not able to visualize how this is used.

 

I slide it in as shown - flat side up. The end is very fine.  I just used it to remove a roller. It works really well. 

[Waggy]

On 9/10/2022 at 12:14 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I broke the first one i encountered.

Me too... "how hard could it be I thought..." It came off OK.. or at least it seemed to, but when I put it back on I pressed too much creating friction between it and the mainplate, so I had to remove and re-apply. I think a combination of it trying to spin with friction and the re-application caused the ID of the wheel to open up and then it wouldn't stay on the pivot. One (expensive ) Bulova resigned to the ever growing "I'll fix that another day pile".

However it still irks me to the point where I still cannot bring myself to order one, that the presto tool to do this job is £45.15 + VAT + P&P when I can get the 99% the same hand removing tool (non Bergeon) for less than £10. I know its a false economy not to get one.... but the tight Geordie in me will not let me do it 

[Neverenoughwatches]

25 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Me too... "how hard could it be I thought..." It came off OK.. or at least it seemed to, but when I put it back on I pressed too much creating friction between it and the mainplate, so I had to remove and re-apply. I think a combination of it trying to spin with friction and the re-application caused the ID of the wheel to open up and then it wouldn't stay on the pivot. One (expensive ) Bulova resigned to the ever growing "I'll fix that another day pile".

However it still irks me to the point where I still cannot bring myself to order one, that the presto tool to do this job is £45.15 + VAT + P&P when I can get the 99% the same hand removing tool (non Bergeon) for less than £10. I know its a false economy not to get one.... but the tight Geordie in me will not let me do it 

Same but yorkshireman. Not just our region that makes us tight here, Its the hobby, if i spend a lot then i like to see larger items for my money.

[mikepilk]

48 minutes ago, Waggy said:

However it still irks me to the point where I still cannot bring myself to order one, that the presto tool to do this job is £45.15 + VAT + P&P when I can get the 99% the same hand removing tool (non Bergeon) for less than £10. I know its a false economy not to get one.... but the tight Geordie in me will not let me do it 

I bought a cheap presto tool and tried to file the ends to be like the Bergeon, but without success. The metal was poor quality and I couldn't file to the precision required. 

That's why I bought the Bergeon 6016. It's not cheap at £33+VAT, but you can use it on 5 and 6 spoke wheels, hands and rollers.

[Waggy]

13 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I bought the Bergeon 6016

Looks like its next on my list of purchases to hide from the wife!

[oldhippy]

The tool that removes these wheels has already been posted. I realize many of you do this for a hobby, but sometimes there is no other way unless you want damage the movement, so unless you have to remove it I suggest you don't which I have all ready mentioned many posts back.   

[Nucejoe]

I agree with OH, remvoing this wheel is risky. 

I would check the side shake on its arbour, also a magnified picture of the section thats in the hole/ jewel, are helpful to diagnose if it needs attention.

Rgds

 

[Waggy]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

The tool that removes these wheels has already been posted. I realize many of you do this for a hobby, but sometimes there is no other way unless you want damage the movement, so unless you have to remove it I suggest you don't which I have all ready mentioned many posts back.   

Fair point

[LittleWatchShop]

6 hours ago, Waggy said:

However it still irks me to the point where I still cannot bring myself to order one, that the presto tool to do this job

Those wheel situations show up in other watches too, e.g., Elgin 539.  Some chronographs too.