Stem keeps coming out of vintage Bulova 10ae movement

[Watcherwoman]

Hello all,

The watch I am having trouble with today has had a repeated problem of the stem coming out of the movement. After tightening the setting screw, the stem will stay in the movement after being pushed in and out a few times, but eventually, it slides out. I feel like I have done all of the troubleshooting I can on this one, and I still can’t figure out the problem. 
 

please see the attached photos. Try to ignore the rust spots on the setting lever; this was a replacement lever that I took from another movement just to see if I would have the same problem, and I did. The original setting leaver for this movement (same caliber) Appears to be in good condition, although both levers do show a little bit of wear on the pin.

I don’t think the setting screw is becoming loose as I push it in and out, I can see it staying in place when I look at the other side of the movement/the top of the screw. The stem hubs seem to be in good condition and not worn.

One thing to note, is that this watch did come to me with a bent stem, which I did replaced with a stem of the proper caliber. I wonder if the bridge itself might have become worn from this bent stem. There is some slight jiggling of the stem if I move the crown around. Would this be an indicator that a worn plate/bridge is the problem? If so, how would I go about determining what oversized stem to replace it with?

thanks as always!

 

[watchweasol]

Hi  Whats the condition of the stem like are the shoulders of the groove that the setting lever fir in susquare and not worn.

[Watcherwoman]

59 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  Whats the condition of the stem like are the shoulders of the groove that the setting lever fir in susquare and not worn.

Looks ok to me. Here are photos of the setting lever and the stem. 

[LittleWatchShop]

Well...it all looks good and should work. But, when you tighten the setting lever screw fully, is there any play in the setting lever (up and down)?  Maybe it is the screw.

[GuyMontag]

EDIT: Ignore the below, I was looking at a 10AX not 10AE. However, I'll throw up my 10AE just in case it helps. It *does* look like your setting lever isn't the same shape as mine. Mine extends below the setting lever spring while in your photo it doesn't look like it does:

 

 

I pulled out a 10AE scrap movement to compare, and mine does look a little different when in the setting position like yours is in the photo. The 'head' of the setting lever in your photo (while in setting position) looks like it is extending past the winding stem compared to mine (which is working). It might be the angle, but even taking that in to account it does look different.

The top part of your setting lever spring looks to be broken as well, but I don't think that would account for the issue you are having. Your yoke spring also looks different, like the part that wraps around the post has been stretched out.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by GuyMontag

[Watcherwoman]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Well...it all looks good and should work. But, when you tighten the setting lever screw fully, is there any play in the setting lever (up and down)?  Maybe it is the screw.

There DOES seem to be a slight play, and in testing it this time, the screw most certainly was loosening up as I pulled in and out  - so in other words, I was able to give it at least half a turn to tighten, AFTER I had previously tightened it. 
 

so what would cause this?? I inspected the setting screw prior to posting, and it looked in good condition. I did take note that the (neck?) part of the screw, the part that is widest, is actually shorter than the screw on my other movement. Perhaps someone switched out the wrong screw in the past?? I hadn’t tried switching them before because the alternate is a bit rusted, but now I’m going to soak it in some vinegar, give it a good polish, and try this screw tomorrow to see if it makes a difference.  

 

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Well...it all looks good and should work. But, when you tighten the setting lever screw fully, is there any play in the setting lever (up and down)?  Maybe it is the screw.

 

25 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I pulled out a 10AE scrap movement to compare, and mine does look a little different when in the setting position like yours is in the photo. The 'head' of the setting lever in your photo (while in setting position) looks like it is extending past the winding stem compared to mine (which is working). It might be the angle, but even taking that in to account it does look different.

The top part of your setting lever spring looks to be broken as well, but I don't think that would account for the issue you are having. Your yoke spring also looks different, like the part that wraps around the post has been stretched out.

 

I definitely see the differences and appreciate your time in posting a photo for comparison. I also notice your stem seems to be closer to the surface of the plate, whereas mine looks sunken. 

[GuyMontag]

See my previous post, I had to edit it as the 2nd set of photos were of the 10AX, not 10AE. I added a photo of one of my 10AE movements, and it does look like in your photo the setting lever spring isn't touching the top of the setting lever when in the setting position (mine does), is that correct? If not then perhaps that is the issue as without the setting lever spring pushing down on the setting lever, it may be the setting lever pops out when putting in the setting position.

[Watcherwoman]

23 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

See my previous post, I had to edit it as the 2nd set of photos were of the 10AX, not 10AE. I added a photo of one of my 10AE movements, and it does look like in your photo the setting lever spring isn't touching the top of the setting lever when in the setting position (mine does), is that correct? If not then perhaps that is the issue as without the setting lever spring pushing down on the setting lever, it may be the setting lever pops out when putting in the setting position.

A correction for me as well. The rusted setting lever was NOT from 10ae, rather 10an. Here it is again with the 10ae lever, however, also the same lever that was in the watch when it came to me, and the stem continues to come out after a few pops. There is a very slight gap I can see between the lever spring and lever, ever so slight. If it is absolutely supposed to be flush, then yes this would be the problem, and would then warrant purchasing a new lever spring?

[GuyMontag]

The 10AE and 10AN setting levers are interchangeable, so that shouldn't be an issue. It does look like your setting lever spring is touching the setting lever similar to mine, so not sure what the issue could be. When you ordered a new stem are you sure it's a 10AE (or 10AN/AX, those interchange)?

 

[HectorLooi]

This sounds more like a problem with the setting lever screw than the lever. The threads may have worn off and is loose. When the setting lever screw is fully tightenen, is the lever able to turn freely or do you feel some resistence?

Try changing the setting lever screw and see how that works out.

[oldhippy]

This normally happens when the hole that the stem goes into gets worn. When the stem is in its proper place does it wobble about in the hole? is it a nice snug fit or loose. The stem and setting lever look fine 

[Shane]

7 hours ago, Watcherwoman said:

part of the screw, the part that is widest, is actually shorter than the screw on my other movement

Is that shank of the shoulder screw long enough to actually be proud of the plate (by at least a very small amount) or is the shoulder still below the surface of the plate?  To work the shoulder screw and lever need to have clearance between them when tight.  If the screw is to short there may not be any clearance and the screw can not actually get tight if the assembly is still able to move.  Pulling the stem in and out can rotate the parts independently to each other and loosens them further.

Just a guess.

Good luck.

Shane

[Watcherwoman]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

This normally happens when the hole that the stem goes into gets worn. When the stem is in its proper place does it wobble about in the hole? is it a nice snug fit or loose. The stem and setting lever look fine 

There is a little bit of wobble. I was wondering initially if that was the problem. Is the only way to rectify this to change the main plate and barrel bridge??

[LittleWatchShop]

24 minutes ago, Watcherwoman said:

There is a little bit of wobble. I was wondering initially if that was the problem. Is the only way to rectify this to change the main plate and barrel bridge??

First make sure it is the correct screw.

[oldhippy]

58 minutes ago, Watcherwoman said:

There is a little bit of wobble. I was wondering initially if that was the problem. Is the only way to rectify this to change the main plate and barrel bridge??

Sorry to say that is the only way. Have you tried a new setting lever? some watchmakers call it a bolt. 

[Watcherwoman]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Sorry to say that is the only way. Have you tried a new setting lever? some watchmakers call it a bolt. 

I definitely think you are right that this is the problem. The stem has too much jiggle for comfort. A brand new setting lever is hard to come by. I’ve ordered another movement in hopes to be able to salvage both together. Thanks to everyone who helped on this!!!

[GuyMontag]

I'd be happy to send you mine, just let me know.

[Watcherwoman]

48 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I'd be happy to send you mine, just let me know.

That is very generous. Is it 17j? Let me know what I would owe you. 

[GuyMontag]

It would be the mainplate, winding stem, setting lever and setting lever screw. No charge for those, I'll just pop it into a letter envelope. If that works just pm your address.

[Watcherwoman]

17 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

It would be the mainplate, winding stem, setting lever and setting lever screw. No charge for those, I'll just pop it into a letter envelope. If that works just pm your address.

Thank you! Message sent. 

[oldhippy]

49 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

It would be the mainplate, winding stem, setting lever and setting lever screw. No charge for those, I'll just pop it into a letter envelope. If that works just pm your address.

That is incredibly kind of you GuyMontag. 

[GuyMontag]

I was lucky enough to purchase a collection of watches/movements/parts from a watchmakers estate a little over a year ago (this is from the '404 club' post). I'm still going through all of them, there are a good 1,000 to 1,500 watches/movements/parts, all nicely arranged alphabetically by movement which makes it so much easier than it could have been to find what I need. Bulova is my main area of collection interest (my avatar is what got me started), so I set aside the 'keepers" and this is what I'm left with for parts and scrap movements:

I want to keep those that fall into my 'wheelhouse', but the 10AE isn't really a movement that I see myself needing down the road so I'm happy to pass it along. I'm still coming across Bulova's that are sorted by non in-house Bulova movements (eg, a number of 'AS' movements). 

Another Bulvoa saved that was destined for the scrap heap and I'm happy. I just want to see a photo of the finished watch

Edited July 10, 2022 by GuyMontag

[KarlvonKoln]

I came late to this one, but I do think a new setting lever is likely to solve your issue.  I've worked on a number of Bulovas in the "10" series, with a missing stem as the primary among their woes, and I caught on to the worn setting lever problem pretty soon.  Not sure why, but the 10-series lever seems to wear quicker (relatively I mean, they all last for decades) than most other Bulovas.  Going on Ebay you can quickly find several parts-movements in the 10 series which use the same lever, and most descriptions thereof often contain the words "missing stem"...so of course one must not buy those particular ones.  With perseverance, one will turn up which has its stem, so the odds of a good lever go up slightly at the point.  But @GuyMontag is a true hero here, giving you NOS bits!  That is a most kind and civlized gesture, Guy!

And Guy, sir, as I tip my hat to you, I also must ask if I myself may shamelessly PM you later.  As I mentioned, I seem to do a good deal of Bulova work, and have been in need of certain parts which have not turned up elsewhere yet.  I am more than willing to compensate, or we could even trade if I have something among my donor movements that you yourself require.  My gratitude would be undying as well.

[GuyMontag]

15 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

And Guy, sir, as I tip my hat to you, I also must ask if I myself may shamelessly PM you later.  As I mentioned, I seem to do a good deal of Bulova work, and have been in need of certain parts which have not turned up elsewhere yet.  I am more than willing to compensate, or we could even trade if I have something among my donor movements that you yourself require.  My gratitude would be undying as well.

Sure, feel free to send me a PM.

[Watcherwoman]

On 7/9/2022 at 11:33 PM, GuyMontag said:

I was lucky enough to purchase a collection of watches/movements/parts from a watchmakers estate a little over a year ago (this is from the '404 club' post). I'm still going through all of them, there are a good 1,000 to 1,500 watches/movements/parts, all nicely arranged alphabetically by movement which makes it so much easier than it could have been to find what I need. Bulova is my main area of collection interest (my avatar is what got me started), so I set aside the 'keepers" and this is what I'm left with for parts and scrap movements:

I want to keep those that fall into my 'wheelhouse', but the 10AE isn't really a movement that I see myself needing down the road so I'm happy to pass it along. I'm still coming across Bulova's that are sorted by non in-house Bulova movements (eg, a number of 'AS' movements). 

Another Bulvoa saved that was destined for the scrap heap and I'm happy. I just want to see a photo of the finished watch

I realized I wasn’t getting email notifications anymore on responses - sorry I just saw this! I received Guy’s parts and the watch is now repaired. I replaced setting lever and stem, as both looked different/less worn than what I had. Problem rectified. What a lovely collection of parts, hopefully one day I will be so lucky!