Jump to content

Yoke keeps slipping out of sliding clutch


Recommended Posts

I give up. I can't get the setting mechanism (keyless works) to function on my 1970 Bulova Oceanographer. Two photos illustrate the situation. The yoke and yoke spring are shown. The second image shows everything in place yoke in the clutch notch, but the setting lever spring is not fully tightened. The yoke keeps coming out of the clutch even after I tighten down the setting lever spring. I have the crown stem in. I've tried it with the setting lever screw tight or loose, but that doesn't seem to matter. Everything I've seen on YT shows the yoke engaged with the notch in the clutch. I noticed there was a gray deposit on top of the yoke where it rubbed on the setting lever spring, so I imagine this is a contact area. Thanks in advance for any advice you have.

yoke1.jpg

yoke2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The setting lever spring is resting on top of the small pip of the lever underneath it. You need to move the setting lever spring to the left so that the pip fits in the indent of the setting lever spring (shown in red on my image). You also have a broken tooth on the winding crown wheel. Good luck, Steve.

Screenshot_20220604-233059-310.png

1 minute ago, steve1811uk said:

The setting lever spring is resting on top of the small pip of the lever underneath it. You need to move the setting lever spring to the left so that the pip fits in the indent of the setting lever spring (shown in red on my image). You also have a broken tooth on the winding crown wheel. Good luck, Steve.

Screenshot_20220604-233059-310.png

I meant the crown wheel for setting the time.

Screenshot_20220604-233059-310~2.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, yoke lever spring is in right orientation.

I know about the pip location not being right. The yoke lever spring was sitting loose on purpose.

Thanks for catching the broken clutch! You've got eagle eyes. I replaced it from my donor. This is final with everything tight, but the yoke still slips out. Any ideas?

yoke 3.jpg

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Is your yoke lever spring the right way round? 

I think it was backwards Mike. I flipped it. Flat end should be facing the outer edge the way it is now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What movement is it? I have a couple of 1970 Oceanographer's but they don't look like yours.

 

I had a similar issue with the yoke on a AS1194 where the yoke wouldn't sit correctly in the sliding pinion. On that movement the "head" of the yoke had to slide underneath the pillar plate instead of resting on top of it:

(EDIT: That doesn't look like it would be your issue as the setting lever wouldn't be able to engage the yoke if the head of the yoke was under the pillar plate)

yoke.thumb.jpg.a598dfeb3d1ab29a67b6ebc5b43b5baf.jpg

Edited by GuyMontag
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may seem crazy ??? But have you tried turning the yoke over ? Just the way the curve of it looks on the side opposite how you have it placed against the spring in your 1st photo....makes me wonder if when you move the stem, to engage the crown wheel..it's causing the spring to "pinch" hard against the pip it rides against, causing  enough pressure against the yoke to jump out.

Just a thought....

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could be this wheel not engaging properly. I believe that it has a beveled side that should be on the bottom to engage with the crown of the clutch.

Screenshot_20220605-091958-480.png

19 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

Could be this wheel not engaging properly. I believe that it has a beveled side that should be on the bottom to engage with the crown of the clutch.

Screenshot_20220605-091958-480.png

Picture of one I did a few months back showing yoke position. Note that I did have the spring fitted the other way round to you. I now believe that is incorrect, but that is how it was and that is how I put it back. It works fine that way.

IMG_20210918_160004076_HDR.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coincidentally, I'm having a similar problem this afternoon with a Poljot I'm rebuilding. Whenever I take the stem out, the yoke slips out of the slot in the clutch. Annoying. Glad I spotted it before casing the movement. 

What seems to have fixed it, is bending the cover plate down slightly (at the "x") to prevent any vertical play in the yoke.
Also, only taking the stem out when it has been pulled out first -  the clutch seems to be held more firmly.

In your case, you need to check that the setting lever spring is holding the yoke down along it's length. You said there was some wear, maybe you need to bend it down slightly?

Keyless.thumb.jpg.bc9dc1c4f8c66cecf104ba8f75eaba82.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got it!!!!! After hours of futzing, I now have a functional keyless works. The yoke spring and yoke were in their proper orientation. The watch stem was true and nothing was worn. Thanks to all who contributed! I tweaked the setting lever spring a tiny bit, maybe not even noticeable, but who knows? But the real trick was to use pegwood to hold down the yoke while and after positioning it in the sliding clutch. Before proceeding, I screwed down the set lever screw. Then I tightened the setting lever spring screw, the pegwood pressed down so the yoke wouldn't move. The more I do this the more I see shortcomings in watch designs. Now on to the pallet fork and balance wheel and I'll be done with my first ever service of a watch.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rph952 said:

I got it!!!!! After hours of futzing, I now have a functional keyless works. The yoke spring and yoke were in their proper orientation. The watch stem was true and nothing was worn. Thanks to all who contributed! I tweaked the setting lever spring a tiny bit, maybe not even noticeable, but who knows? But the real trick was to use pegwood to hold down the yoke while and after positioning it in the sliding clutch. Before proceeding, I screwed down the set lever screw. Then I tightened the setting lever spring screw, the pegwood pressed down so the yoke wouldn't move. The more I do this the more I see shortcomings in watch designs. Now on to the pallet fork and balance wheel and I'll be done with my first ever service of a watch.

Well done mate, challenge -0  rph952- 1.   Cant we just call you Rob or Ralph or Reginald ?

1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Well done mate, challenge -0  rph952- 1.   Cant we just call you Rob or Ralph or Reginald ?

Sorry I'm all excited, i havent eaten much today and I've now got a monster sized sausage sarny on the go. 😊

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed. 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, rph952 said:

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed. 🙂

Hey! Don't give up at your very first failure. All of us have experienced it before. 

If you took up watch repair after watching videos on YouTube, then that's the problem. Especially if you watched Mark, our forum founder. He makes it look so easy that we, normal people, feel useless when we attempt it.

Watchmaking is not simple. I'm sure you don't expect to produce a "Mona Lisa" after watching a few painting lessons on YouTube. 

So don't give up. Take a break to review and re-strategise. Work on something bigger like pocketwatches or table clocks. Practice makes perfect.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just as rewarding as watchmaking can be, so frustrating it can be as well. Just stick with it! It’s amazing how soon you naturally learn from stupid mistakes and those eventually happens less. But screwing up is a rite of passage; everyone has been there. It’s the only way to learn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, rph952 said:

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed. 🙂

Don't give up - the more mistakes you make, the quicker you learn. Buy some cheap movements and practice on those. They can also provide spare parts for the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, rph952 said:

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed. 🙂

Aw mate dont say that. You had a breakthrough yesterday, i even gave you a point and your watch challenge a nil poi. Here buddy take from this what you will, here are my stupid beginner fookups. My grandfathers watch, my first repair. Fixed it cleaned it oiled it, it worked after 50 years in a drawer great yes ? 👍. Noooooo .One month later almost ruined, cleaned it in washing up liquid and water as recommended by a youtuber, oiled it with garbage oils, maybe didnt dry it enough ? . Rust took hold pretty quickly, used Rustins rust remover to derust the escape wheel, overnight soak, it fooking completely dissolved it. I was totally fooking  gutted to say the least. Number 2 fookup. A smiths diver a great find yes 👍.  Yes until Richard the breaker got over enthusiast with a hair drier to dry the case front . Melted the crystal right off it, which wasn't particularly a problem because i was changing it anyway but in hindsight i should have just sanded and buffed it. No not just the crystal but damaged the fooking bezel as well, its now put aside until i find another bezel. Was i gutted ? Absobloodylutely mate. And there are more to mention.  My point is am i still here, still learning and still repairing ? Most definitely.  Moral of all this.  Dont give up mate, we dont give up, we keep trying, we keep practicing , we keep learning and i can honestly say we really really do get better. Have you learnt from your mistakes and experiences ? i know you have. And will you make many more mistakes ? Yep just like we all have, and will you learn from them mistakes ? Yep just like we all have and thats why we get better. And you will have great moments as well and those great moments come more often the more you keep trying. So the best advice i can give you, comes as somewhat harsh,  suck it up mate and keep going it will get easier trust me. X

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep thinking that I am proficient at serving until that oops moment happens.  I'm still having mishaps but that magic moment when the balance springs to life makes it all worth it. 

I tend to get bored of the things I'm good at, still plenty to learn about watch repair. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I keep thinking that I am proficient at serving until that oops moment happens.  I'm still having mishaps but that magic moment when the balance springs to life makes it all worth it. 

I tend to get bored of the things I'm good at, still plenty to learn about watch repair. 

There you go rph952,  (Ralph now)  Rich knows exactly what im saying. 👍

6 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I keep thinking that I am proficient at serving until that oops moment happens.  I'm still having mishaps but that magic moment when the balance springs to life makes it all worth it. 

I tend to get bored of the things I'm good at, still plenty to learn about watch repair. 

Rich, stop trolling around and get the chuffing smith's balance staff swapped over 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I see what you mean. I must admit I’m not entirely comfortable with that but I can’t see a better method than what you suggest. I’d like to see something like this mirror with a short spike: https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/mirror-for-observing-movements Place it on, push the spike on the post with one hand and release the stem with the other hand. Minor problem, it doesn’t exist.
    • Hope you mum keeps on mending. I was adamant that I was going to get myself going after my stroke. I was only 52. I still have a lot of life left to live. Some people give up. Some people don't let it beat them. Your mum sounds like one of the winners. 👍
    • Moved in. Now working out the best place to have things so moving around the room makes sense. The wooden movement testing rig may end up being suspended from the roof with some pulleys and ropes that I salvaged from some alfresco blinds that we replaced. I always seem to salvage things from things we scrap thinking, "I have an idea what I can use these for." I hope I'm not the only one that does that. My wife hates me for it. "What are you going to do with all this crap?" Anyway, here you go. If anyone has suggestions for workflow around a room, speak up. All Ideas are appreciated. The bench on wheels will carry either a laptop or my Samsung table for using with the little camera that is on the tripod for photos while dismantling etc. The small bar fridge in the corners going to have water etc in it and I might move the coffee maker from the kitchen out there as I am the only one that uses it. I want to get an ultrasonic cleaner so I may set up some sort of cleaning rig in front of the glass of the sliding door. Where the grandmother clock is currently standing. I'm hoping that I will be able to transition my working area, which is the table that the stool is sitting in front of, fairly easily between clocks and watches. I'll be doing my best to make sure that tools for each are separatedwhen stored. Logistics. I'll have a bit of wall space for being able to hang clocks if I find some that I wish to keep or hopefully at some time to be able to hang customer clocks for monitoring after servicing/repairs. The clock on the left in the blue pillow slip and the grandmother clock are earmarked for  Jarryd and his wife, Sara. He helped me move the benches in today. And then went on to tell me that ticking clocks drive him nuts. Who doesn't like the rhythmic ticking of a clock? I have a green pad for adding to the bench for a working surface. It is not a cutting mat or one of the Bergeon mats. It is actually a green desk writing mat. Was really cheap and will do exactly what I want, I think. I also have to get the sparkies back that put our new stove in to put some power points on the walls behind the benches. Hopefully this is all going to go well. I'm excited about it. It'll beat having to live out in the garage doing it. The other thing I have to do is cut a circle or square of plastic to go over the bouncing watch or clock part black hole in the middle of the floor. I would pretty much guarantee that anything that sproings off the bench would end up going straight down that drain. 😄      I think I have been on this forum about 4 years and still yet to really strike a blow. That's a bit sad isn't it. Signed up to Mark's watch course and have yet to buy the movement for working on. Have most of the tools I think I will need so now all just a matter of will.   I have to make a crank handle for my Joe Collins spring winder as well and some spring retaining tubes as I can't find where I can buy them. I will be salvaging (here I go again) the aluminium tubing from my old hang glider which I have to scrap as I can't fly anymore and it is too old to sell. All the aluminium tubing is aircraft grade so I am hoping it will be suitable for the winder. I have also been making a bushing tool and I have just worked out that it will work well with my Dremel stand. So another thing that I can turn into a working tool. Don't know if you guys have ever seen the ad about the guy that buys himself a new 4WD and the son says "We're going to need a bigger boat." So Liz is looking at all the stuff we have to get rid of and says "We're going to need a bigger bin." Really difficult to work out how big a Dempster bin we need. Sigh.
    • So leave off the seconds. Stand the movement on its edge, its the dial edge that rests on the pad ( either rubber or cork , something that wont slip ). Use a finger of your left hand to hold the movement upright,  right hand presses the release and flicks out the stem. I do it this way so i can see what I'm under a microscope. But you could hold the movement between two fingers of your left hand, its the right that has to manipulate the stem out by pushing the release and flicking out the stem with  right ring finger nail. Sounds more complicated than it actually is. I guess you could fix a push pin to something solid, then all you need to do is push the release against the pin, leaving your right hand completely free to pull the stem out.
    • Try putting everything back together and closing the back cover. I think one of the two springs has to contact the metal casing to ground the casing. So when you press the button, it will touch the contact on circuit board and close the circuit.
×
×
  • Create New...