Yoke keeps slipping out of sliding clutch

[rph952]

I give up. I can't get the setting mechanism (keyless works) to function on my 1970 Bulova Oceanographer. Two photos illustrate the situation. The yoke and yoke spring are shown. The second image shows everything in place yoke in the clutch notch, but the setting lever spring is not fully tightened. The yoke keeps coming out of the clutch even after I tighten down the setting lever spring. I have the crown stem in. I've tried it with the setting lever screw tight or loose, but that doesn't seem to matter. Everything I've seen on YT shows the yoke engaged with the notch in the clutch. I noticed there was a gray deposit on top of the yoke where it rubbed on the setting lever spring, so I imagine this is a contact area. Thanks in advance for any advice you have.

[mikepilk]

Is your yoke lever spring the right way round? 

[steve1811uk]

The setting lever spring is resting on top of the small pip of the lever underneath it. You need to move the setting lever spring to the left so that the pip fits in the indent of the setting lever spring (shown in red on my image). You also have a broken tooth on the winding crown wheel. Good luck, Steve.

1 minute ago, steve1811uk said:

The setting lever spring is resting on top of the small pip of the lever underneath it. You need to move the setting lever spring to the left so that the pip fits in the indent of the setting lever spring (shown in red on my image). You also have a broken tooth on the winding crown wheel. Good luck, Steve.

I meant the crown wheel for setting the time.

[rph952]

Yes, yoke lever spring is in right orientation.

I know about the pip location not being right. The yoke lever spring was sitting loose on purpose.

Thanks for catching the broken clutch! You've got eagle eyes. I replaced it from my donor. This is final with everything tight, but the yoke still slips out. Any ideas?

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Is your yoke lever spring the right way round? 

I think it was backwards Mike. I flipped it. Flat end should be facing the outer edge the way it is now.

[GuyMontag]

What movement is it? I have a couple of 1970 Oceanographer's but they don't look like yours.

 

I had a similar issue with the yoke on a AS1194 where the yoke wouldn't sit correctly in the sliding pinion. On that movement the "head" of the yoke had to slide underneath the pillar plate instead of resting on top of it:

(EDIT: That doesn't look like it would be your issue as the setting lever wouldn't be able to engage the yoke if the head of the yoke was under the pillar plate)

Edited June 5, 2022 by GuyMontag

[rph952]

It's 11BLC. 

[Randy55]

This may seem crazy ??? But have you tried turning the yoke over ? Just the way the curve of it looks on the side opposite how you have it placed against the spring in your 1st photo....makes me wonder if when you move the stem, to engage the crown wheel..it's causing the spring to "pinch" hard against the pip it rides against, causing  enough pressure against the yoke to jump out.

Just a thought....

[Kalanag]

I agree!

This setup looks wrong:

Is it an optical illusion?
The spring seems to be the right one:

 

EDIT:

Sorry! It IS right! 

https://youtu.be/WGzvjFwrXXQ

Edited June 5, 2022 by Kalanag

[steve1811uk]

Could be this wheel not engaging properly. I believe that it has a beveled side that should be on the bottom to engage with the crown of the clutch.

19 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

Could be this wheel not engaging properly. I believe that it has a beveled side that should be on the bottom to engage with the crown of the clutch.

Picture of one I did a few months back showing yoke position. Note that I did have the spring fitted the other way round to you. I now believe that is incorrect, but that is how it was and that is how I put it back. It works fine that way.

[mikepilk]

Is the stem loose in it's hole ?

If there's too much play, the yoke can slip out.

[Nucejoe]

I agree with Mike,   wron hole that stem end enters into is the primary  suspect and  rarely bent stem might cause this. 

Regds

[nickelsilver]

Could also be the incorrect stem, it's surprising sometimes how far off they can be and still kind of work.

[mikepilk]

Coincidentally, I'm having a similar problem this afternoon with a Poljot I'm rebuilding. Whenever I take the stem out, the yoke slips out of the slot in the clutch. Annoying. Glad I spotted it before casing the movement. 

What seems to have fixed it, is bending the cover plate down slightly (at the "x") to prevent any vertical play in the yoke.
Also, only taking the stem out when it has been pulled out first -  the clutch seems to be held more firmly.

In your case, you need to check that the setting lever spring is holding the yoke down along it's length. You said there was some wear, maybe you need to bend it down slightly?

[rph952]

I got it!!!!! After hours of futzing, I now have a functional keyless works. The yoke spring and yoke were in their proper orientation. The watch stem was true and nothing was worn. Thanks to all who contributed! I tweaked the setting lever spring a tiny bit, maybe not even noticeable, but who knows? But the real trick was to use pegwood to hold down the yoke while and after positioning it in the sliding clutch. Before proceeding, I screwed down the set lever screw. Then I tightened the setting lever spring screw, the pegwood pressed down so the yoke wouldn't move. The more I do this the more I see shortcomings in watch designs. Now on to the pallet fork and balance wheel and I'll be done with my first ever service of a watch.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rph952 said:

I got it!!!!! After hours of futzing, I now have a functional keyless works. The yoke spring and yoke were in their proper orientation. The watch stem was true and nothing was worn. Thanks to all who contributed! I tweaked the setting lever spring a tiny bit, maybe not even noticeable, but who knows? But the real trick was to use pegwood to hold down the yoke while and after positioning it in the sliding clutch. Before proceeding, I screwed down the set lever screw. Then I tightened the setting lever spring screw, the pegwood pressed down so the yoke wouldn't move. The more I do this the more I see shortcomings in watch designs. Now on to the pallet fork and balance wheel and I'll be done with my first ever service of a watch.

Well done mate, challenge -0  rph952- 1.   Cant we just call you Rob or Ralph or Reginald ?

1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Well done mate, challenge -0  rph952- 1.   Cant we just call you Rob or Ralph or Reginald ?

Sorry I'm all excited, i havent eaten much today and I've now got a monster sized sausage sarny on the go.

[rph952]

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed.

[HectorLooi]

3 hours ago, rph952 said:

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed.

Hey! Don't give up at your very first failure. All of us have experienced it before. 

If you took up watch repair after watching videos on YouTube, then that's the problem. Especially if you watched Mark, our forum founder. He makes it look so easy that we, normal people, feel useless when we attempt it.

Watchmaking is not simple. I'm sure you don't expect to produce a "Mona Lisa" after watching a few painting lessons on YouTube. 

So don't give up. Take a break to review and re-strategise. Work on something bigger like pocketwatches or table clocks. Practice makes perfect.

[gbyleveldt]

Just as rewarding as watchmaking can be, so frustrating it can be as well. Just stick with it! It’s amazing how soon you naturally learn from stupid mistakes and those eventually happens less. But screwing up is a rite of passage; everyone has been there. It’s the only way to learn.

[mikepilk]

9 hours ago, rph952 said:

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed.

Don't give up - the more mistakes you make, the quicker you learn. Buy some cheap movements and practice on those. They can also provide spare parts for the future.

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, rph952 said:

Goodbye all. I failed miserably. KIF spring broken and now I'm stuck. I lost another one from my donor as well. I never could have replaced it without a scope. I did get the Bulova Oceanographer to run, but not well. After thinking it over, I decided watch maintenance is not my calling. However, I will continue to bring discarded quartz watches back to life with battery replacements, and donate to friends. That's more my speed.

Aw mate dont say that. You had a breakthrough yesterday, i even gave you a point and your watch challenge a nil poi. Here buddy take from this what you will, here are my stupid beginner fookups. My grandfathers watch, my first repair. Fixed it cleaned it oiled it, it worked after 50 years in a drawer great yes ? . Noooooo .One month later almost ruined, cleaned it in washing up liquid and water as recommended by a youtuber, oiled it with garbage oils, maybe didnt dry it enough ? . Rust took hold pretty quickly, used Rustins rust remover to derust the escape wheel, overnight soak, it fooking completely dissolved it. I was totally fooking  gutted to say the least. Number 2 fookup. A smiths diver a great find yes .  Yes until Richard the breaker got over enthusiast with a hair drier to dry the case front . Melted the crystal right off it, which wasn't particularly a problem because i was changing it anyway but in hindsight i should have just sanded and buffed it. No not just the crystal but damaged the fooking bezel as well, its now put aside until i find another bezel. Was i gutted ? Absobloodylutely mate. And there are more to mention.  My point is am i still here, still learning and still repairing ? Most definitely.  Moral of all this.  Dont give up mate, we dont give up, we keep trying, we keep practicing , we keep learning and i can honestly say we really really do get better. Have you learnt from your mistakes and experiences ? i know you have. And will you make many more mistakes ? Yep just like we all have, and will you learn from them mistakes ? Yep just like we all have and thats why we get better. And you will have great moments as well and those great moments come more often the more you keep trying. So the best advice i can give you, comes as somewhat harsh,  suck it up mate and keep going it will get easier trust me. X

Edited June 6, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[RichardHarris123]

I keep thinking that I am proficient at serving until that oops moment happens.  I'm still having mishaps but that magic moment when the balance springs to life makes it all worth it. 

I tend to get bored of the things I'm good at, still plenty to learn about watch repair. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I keep thinking that I am proficient at serving until that oops moment happens.  I'm still having mishaps but that magic moment when the balance springs to life makes it all worth it. 

I tend to get bored of the things I'm good at, still plenty to learn about watch repair. 

There you go rph952,  (Ralph now)  Rich knows exactly what im saying.

6 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I keep thinking that I am proficient at serving until that oops moment happens.  I'm still having mishaps but that magic moment when the balance springs to life makes it all worth it. 

I tend to get bored of the things I'm good at, still plenty to learn about watch repair. 

Rich, stop trolling around and get the chuffing smith's balance staff swapped over