Cartier Santos medium issue

[Carter123]

I Just purchased a secondhand Cartier Santos medium from a jewelry store that was recently serviced. It worked fine on day 1, and then I didn't wear it for a couple days. Naturally, the watch stopped. I wound the crowd quite a bit and the secondhand didn't immediately move like it does on all my other watches. I shook the watch a little and the secondhand started moving. Then I pulled the crown out a few times to properly set the time, but when I pushed it back in, the secondhand stopped again. I wound it again, nothing happened. Then I shook it and the secondhand started again.

Attaching a link to a video of me winding it. Nothing happens after a lot of winding, but then I shake it and it starts.

https://youtube.com/shorts/YCwb_ZYCOOc?feature=share

And here is a video of the watch running fine, but I pull the crown in and out a few times and the secondhand stops at 51 seconds. Winding doesn't fix it, only shaking it works.

https://youtube.com/shorts/E40iGt11TuE?feature=share

Is this normal?

[Kalanag]

That‘s not normal! Could be some debris in the train of wheels. The service might not have been done perfectly.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Kalanag

[Marc]

It could just be that it's not in beat. The more out of beat an escapement is the less likely it will be to self start when power is applied.

[Carter123]

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:14 AM, Marc said:

It could just be that it's not in beat. The more out of beat an escapement is the less likely it will be to self start when power is applied.

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I made a clearer video of the issue. In this one, you can see the secondhand is moving, I then pull the crown in and out until I push it in and it gets stuck at the 3 second mark. Winding won't fix it, but if I shake the watch from left to right, it immediately starts up again. If I put the watch to my ear, I can hear and feel something winding inside. Does this clarify the problem? Video link below:

https://youtube.com/shorts/NjwuSHZrTJs?feature=share

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:08 AM, Kalanag said:

That‘s not normal! Could be some debris in the train of wheels. The service might not have been done perfectly.

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Why would it only do this when I push the crown in at a certain time and position? I can sometimes pull it in and out 30+ times before the secondhand stops when pushed in. And then all it takes is a light left to right shake to make it start again. If this isn't normal, what do I do? It's still under Cartier warranty, but I doubt some random sales associate is going to be able to send it to repair and properly explain what needs to be fixed. My fear is the repair person will pick up the watch, see it is running fine, and send it back. You have to really play with the crown to see the issue. The video below took me about two minutes to make before it locked the secondhand. I trimmed it to make the problem easier to see.

 

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:14 AM, Marc said:

It could just be that it's not in beat. The more out of beat an escapement is the less likely it will be to self start when power is applied.

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Well it's not just about it self-starting, it's that the secondhand occasionally stops when the crown is pushed in... And then the only way to restart it is by shaking it. But I'm thinking the secondhand should not be randomly stopping when the crown gets pushed in.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:45 AM, Carter123 said:

I made a clearer video of the issue. In this one, you can see the secondhand is moving, I then pull the crown in and out until I push it in and it gets stuck at the 3 second mark. Winding won't fix it, but if I shake the watch from left to right, it immediately starts up again. If I put the watch to my ear, I can hear and feel something winding inside. Does this clarify the problem? Video link below:

https://youtube.com/shorts/NjwuSHZrTJs?feature=share

Why would it only do this when I push the crown in at a certain time and position? I can sometimes pull it in and out 30+ times before the secondhand stops when pushed in. And then all it takes is a light left to right shake to make it start again. If this isn't normal, what do I do? It's still under Cartier warranty, but I doubt some random sales associate is going to be able to send it to repair and properly explain what needs to be fixed. My fear is the repair person will pick up the watch, see it is running fine, and send it back. You have to really play with the crown to see the issue. The video below took me about two minutes to make before it locked the secondhand. I trimmed it to make the problem easier to see.

 

Well it's not just about it self-starting, it's that the secondhand occasionally stops when the crown is pushed in... And then the only way to restart it is by shaking it. But I'm thinking the secondhand should not be randomly stopping when the crown gets pushed in.

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You seem to be doing a lot of winding. Does the watch fully wind and have a little resistance on the crown when it is.

[RichardHarris123]

Show the sales person the video to demonstrate what is happening. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 10:28 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

Show the sales person the video to demonstrate what is happening. 

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Morning matey. I'm actually going to have a day of repair today while i wait in for the Herpes delivery man to bring me my pressies . Had a good tidy up and reorganisation of my watch room yesterday while waiting in, but the nobhead never turned up. Herpes drivers are absolute pants

[RichardHarris123]

  On 5/29/2022 at 10:34 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Morning matey. I'm actually going to have a day of repair today while i wait in for the Herpes delivery man to bring me my pressies . Had a good tidy up and reorganisation of my watch room yesterday while waiting in, but the nobhead never turned up. Herpes drivers are absolute pants

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Was that a typo or did you mean Herpes, probably an apt name for them. 

[Kalanag]

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:45 AM, Carter123 said:

…Why would it only do this when I push the crown in at a certain time and position?…

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Because the debris sticks to a certain tooth of a certain wheel and prevents the restart only when this tooth meshes with its counterpart.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Kalanag

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 10:37 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

Was that a typo or did you mean Herpes, probably an apt name for them. 

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Haha. No it was intended, they are total rubbish. Drop parcels over my seven foot fence to break, hide them on my property and dont tell me where, deliver them to neighbours halfway down the street and dont tell me who has them and also lose them completely never to be seen again. So yeah Herpes drivers here is my parcel for you    -    and

[RichardHarris123]

  On 5/29/2022 at 10:48 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. No it was intended, they are total rubbish. Drop parcels over my seven foot fence to break, hide them on my property and dont tell me where, deliver them to neighbours halfway down the street and dont tell me who has them and also lose them completely never to be seen again. So yeah Herpes drivers here is my parcel for you    -    and

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Amazon getting just as bad.  One of the drivers doesn't deliver and then I get a notification saying it's been left with a receptionist? There's only two of us and neither of us are receptionists.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 10:52 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

Amazon getting just as bad.  One of the drivers doesn't deliver and then I get a notification saying it's been left with a receptionist? There's only two of us and neither of us are receptionists.

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Except on a weekend .  

  On 5/29/2022 at 10:56 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Except on a weekend .  

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Excuse my rather basic and low tone humour today. Its my day off and i did work a full week this week. 

[clockboy]

Clearly it has an issue that should have been resolved during its service. Take it back to the retailer with the video.. If it is a mile out of beat a shake will be required to get it moving .. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 11:22 AM, clockboy said:

Clearly it has an issue that should have been resolved during its service. Take it back to the retailer with the video.. If it is a mile out of beat a shake will be required to get it moving .. 

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Absolutely.  Carter i would have been sat on their doorstep waiting for them to open the following day. 

[Klassiker]

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:45 AM, Carter123 said:

Well it's not just about it self-starting, it's that the secondhand occasionally stops when the crown is pushed in... And then the only way to restart it is by shaking it. But I'm thinking the secondhand should not be randomly stopping when the crown gets pushed in.

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It's not easy to tell, but from what I'm seeing on the video, the second-hand stops when you pull the crown out, not when you push it in. I don't know the movement in the Santos, but If it has a hacking function, this is what it is supposed to do. Maybe you can check this for us?

If hacking is present, the balance has to start swinging again from rest when you push the crown in. Most of the time this is happening, but occasionally not.  The most likely explanation is that it's out of beat, as Marc and Clockboy already suggested.

Show your video to the people at the service centre. They should correct it under warranty.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 5/29/2022 at 1:11 PM, Klassiker said:

It's not easy to tell, but from what I'm seeing on the video, the second-hand stops when you pull the crown out, not when you push it in. 

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At the start of the vid the second hand does move forward for about 10 seconds when he is winding the hands backwards. Possibly like kalang has said the forth wheel is dirty enough to stop the balance and needs a shake to get past its sticking point of 3 seconds past the 12 marker.

[Marc]

  On 5/29/2022 at 1:11 PM, Klassiker said:

If it has a hacking function

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I wouldn't like to say that all Santos models have the same feature set but I have just serviced a ladies Santos (Cartier 077 (ETA 2671)) which does hack. If this is common across the range then the movement should indeed stop when the crown is out, but it should start up again as soon as the crown is returned to winding position. It could potentially be that the hack mechanism is somehow sticky and isn't freeing up the balance wheel properly without a shake, but my money is still on beat error. Your best bet is to take it back to where you purchased it and take it up with the vendor.

[Nucejoe]

  On 5/29/2022 at 8:45 AM, Carter123 said:

 If I put the watch to my ear, I can hear and feel something winding inside. 

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Furthur to what so far has been discussed .

Above quoted can indicate your watch to be discharging power as you or the selfwinder device wind to the extent that no power out of the barrel gets to the escapement so a fault is either in the selfwinder module or in the gear train, In either case it should run only for a few seconds when you shake the watch.

So,   HOW LONG DOES IT RUN WHEN YOU SHAKE THE WATCH? 

1- Only a few seconds? 

2-Runs more longer than 5 mins ? 

If its case No 1, then pull the crown out to time setting position, shake the watch to run  and simultaneously turn the hands only in clockwise direction, does it keep on running as long as you  are moving or pushing to move the hands clockwise?  

The hack could have been knocked out of place or bent sometime that you have tried setting time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Klassiker]

  On 5/29/2022 at 1:25 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

At the start of the vid the second hand does move forward for about 10 seconds when he is winding the hands backwards

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Maybe you are right, but the crown is in and out so often and so fast, it's hard to say for sure. In  any case, back to the shop with it.

[Carter123]

  On 5/29/2022 at 5:16 PM, Klassiker said:

Maybe you are right, but the crown is in and out so often and so fast, it's hard to say for sure. In  any case, back to the shop with it.

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Yes, this is what I was describing. When I pull the crown out, in certain seemingly random positions, the watch does not start again when the crown is pushed back in. It will start again with a shake. Unfortunately, I bought the watch from a jeweler 3000 miles away. So now my choice is to either try to get them to take it back, or take it to cartier and use the warranty. My guess is the jeweler will just bring it to Cartier, but I don't understand how a watch that is 18 months old and was just serviced could have this issue.

If I bring it to Cartier, how long does a repair take? A few minutes?

 

[RichardHarris123]

  On 5/29/2022 at 6:47 PM, Carter123 said:

Yes, this is what I was describing. When I pull the crown out, in certain seemingly random positions, the watch does not start again when the crown is pushed back in. It will start again with a shake. Unfortunately, I bought the watch from a jeweler 3000 miles away. So now my choice is to either try to get them to take it back, or take it to cartier and use the warranty. My guess is the jeweler will just bring it to Cartier, but I don't understand how a watch that is 18 months old and was just serviced could have this issue.

If I bring it to Cartier, how long does a repair take? A few minutes?

 

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Doesn't matter, you bought a watch under warranty, return it.  Ask for it to be done in a timely manner as it's their fault. 

[Carter123]

  On 5/29/2022 at 4:51 PM, Nucejoe said:

Furthur to what so far has been discussed .

Above quoted can indicate your watch to be discharging power as you or the selfwinder device wind to the extent that no power out of the barrel gets to the escapement so a fault is either in the selfwinder module or in the gear train, In either case it should run only for a few seconds when you shake the watch.

So,   HOW LONG DOES IT RUN WHEN YOU SHAKE THE WATCH? 

1- Only a few seconds? 

2-Runs more longer than 5 mins ? 

If its case No 1, then pull the crown out to time setting position, shake the watch to run  and simultaneously turn the hands only in clockwise direction, does it keep on running as long as you  are moving or pushing to move the hands clockwise?  

The hack could have been knocked out of place or bent sometime that you have tried setting time. 

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It's case #2. The watch is fine after I shake it and runs without issue. The only way the watch stops is if the crown is pushed in at a certain, seemingly random, position. Or if it runs out reserve. 

  On 5/29/2022 at 4:51 PM, Nucejoe said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  On 5/29/2022 at 7:41 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Doesn't matter, you bought a watch under warranty, return it.  Ask for it to be done in a timely manner as it's their fault. 

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I didn't buy the watch from Cartier. I brought it from a jeweler secondhand and will need to wait for them to respond. I suppose I could just return it to them, but I got a good price on it - about $6k with tax. Granted, it has an issue, but $6k used seems to be the going rate if you can find one.

[Carter123]

  On 5/29/2022 at 1:11 PM, Klassiker said:

It's not easy to tell, but from what I'm seeing on the video, the second-hand stops when you pull the crown out, not when you push it in. I don't know the movement in the Santos, but If it has a hacking function, this is what it is supposed to do. Maybe you can check this for us?

If hacking is present, the balance has to start swinging again from rest when you push the crown in. Most of the time this is happening, but occasionally not.  The most likely explanation is that it's out of beat, as Marc and Clockboy already suggested.

Show your video to the people at the service centre. They should correct it under warranty.

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I spoke to the jewelry store that sold me the Santos. They said that even though it was serviced, the issue was likely caused by Ebay's authentication service, which opens the case, exposing the watch to dust and debris. This seems a bit of a leap to me, but maybe. 

They told me I can either return the watch to them through ebay or bring it to Cartier and have it serviced. I don't have an issue bringing it to Cartier, but the problem is the jewelry store will only give me a 30 day return window. If the watch service takes more than 30 days and the problem persists, then I'm stuck with the watch. Considering the watch was recently serviced and still has this issue, I can't bank on Cartier fixing the problem the first time, especially when it's an SA communicating the issue rather than me explaining it to a watchmaker.

The watch was a great deal and I saved almost $1300 by not buying it new, but it's a big risk to assume Cartier will repair it within 30 days. Does anyone know if the LA-based boutiques have in-house watchmaker to make immediate repairs?

 

[anilv]

You could find a watchmaker who has a timegrapher and ask him to check it. It is possible the shop that sold it may not have done the service, looking at the timegrapher trace would give a clue. A nicely serviced watch will have a nice even trace. A watch in need of a service will be all over the shop. The fact that the shop tried to pass the blame onto Cartier is ridiculous.

Personally I would just look for a good watchmaker local to you and move on. Perhaps someone here would be able to recommend a shop.

Anilv

[Carter123]

  On 5/30/2022 at 4:50 AM, anilv said:

You could find a watchmaker who has a timegrapher and ask him to check it. It is possible the shop that sold it may not have done the service, looking at the timegrapher trace would give a clue. A nicely serviced watch will have a nice even trace. A watch in need of a service will be all over the shop. The fact that the shop tried to pass the blame onto Cartier is ridiculous.

Personally I would just look for a good watchmaker local to you and move on. Perhaps someone here would be able to recommend a shop.

Anilv

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They definitely serviced it at Cartier. They sent me the receipt. This is definitely either Cartier or the ebay authenticator's fault. But a watch that is 18 months old shouldn't have issues and speaks to a subpar build.