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Pin pallets mov.t, you can tell by the thick balance rim needed to add inertia to compensate the inefficient escapement. These are not made anymore since quartz completely replaced them on cheap watches.  I do not recommend them since you buy much better for practically the same money.

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59 minutes ago, jdm said:

Pin pallets mov.t, you can tell by the thick balance rim needed to add inertia to the inefficient escapement. These are not made anymore since quartz completely replaced them on cheap watches.  I do not recommend them since you buy much better for practically the same money.

What's the idea of the wheel outside the plate? Which wheel is it and why have it there? 

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1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Hello all 

And once again thanks for all the help, it's been invaluable. 

What sort of movement is this, I've seen a few examples of it.  Could you tell me the manufacturer so I can look it up on budfun. Sorry for the poor quality photo, it's on ebay. 

Screenshot_20220411-101020_eBay.jpg

Eyup Richard. Be a little cautious in buying anything with poor quality photos. It can be a way of obscuring defects in the watch. I'm new to this and initially got stung a few times with this tactic. The seller should be kind enough to give you more better photos if you ask them to, and I often do. Sounds geeky but I also use a big loose magnifying  glass when looking at the photo, it helps me to get right in there to stop anything obvious. They will also tell you what movement it is seeing though the back is off. When you get a " I can't get the back off " mention on the listing it is a red flag and a big risk if you are still going to pursue the buy. Saying that it is fantastic when you get a break and a nice watch for little cash. I almost always buy vintage Swiss I love them, very varied and interesting.  Sometimes only a few quid,and great to learn on. I noticed pin pallets mentioned, it more than likely is, I find them OK but I'm not too fussy. Played around with many, did plenty  of research on them and especially on Oris as they used pin pallets predominantly  at one stage, and apparently  where making some that were almost reaching chronometer standards. Good luck with it let me know how it goes, any questions about this sort of buying I might be able to help you with as I do a lot of it.

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16 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What's the idea of the wheel outside the plate? Which wheel is it and why have it there? 

Hi sorry if I'm barging in on the conversation, I'm trying to learn as well. And if jrd is OK adding or correcting me with my very layman terms. If I'm correct in saying it is a sweep wheel I think. It drives the pinion that is attached to the second hand driver under the small spring. Be really careful taking off the sweep wheel, I once broke the pivot it was attached to, it was really tight, I was either unlucky or clumsy or both. Then ended up with a watch that has no second hand. There are sweep wheel removers, I can't say how well they work though. I always groan when I see something  I want that has a sweep wheel now. I like Smiths watches, one of the few English watchmakers that we had, now long since gone. They sometimes have a sweep wheel, but still worth having. Worth noting that Smiths gave Rolex a run for their money in the mid 50s. Very competitive with each other. Check out the story behind it, watches on Everest.

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6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi sorry if I'm barging in on the conversation, I'm trying to learn as well. And if jrd is OK adding or correcting me with my very layman terms. If I'm correct in saying it is a sweep wheel I think. It drives the pinion that is attached to the second hand driver under the small spring. Be really careful taking off the sweep wheel, I once broke the pivot it was attached to, it was really tight, I was either unlucky or clumsy or both. Then ended up with a watch that has no second hand. There are sweep wheel removers, I can't say how well they work though. I always groan when I see something  I want that has a sweep wheel now. I like Smiths watches, one of the few English watchmakers that we had, now long since gone. They sometimes have a sweep wheel, but still worth having. Worth noting that Smiths gave Rolex a run for their money in the mid 50s. Very competitive with each other. Check out the story behind it, watches on Everest.

No problem matey, it's nice to converse with folk on the same level as me. Having similar  experiences and overcoming issues. The top guys on here are great at supplying advice, but sometimes the terminology and explanation goes over my head  and can be lost on beginners like me. It might be just me but when it happens I just wonder what I'm getting into, I do get a bit arsy about it and then I feel the need to open my gob and risk getting into bother about it, but hey when did that ever stop me.

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On 4/9/2022 at 8:12 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Anyone recognise this movement, dispite the dirt it's running well. 

20220409_200030.jpg

 

21 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi sorry if I'm barging in on the conversation, I'm trying to learn as well. And if jrd is OK adding or correcting me with my very layman terms. If I'm correct in saying it is a sweep wheel I think. It drives the pinion that is attached to the second hand driver under the small spring. Be really careful taking off the sweep wheel, I once broke the pivot it was attached to, it was really tight, I was either unlucky or clumsy or both. Then ended up with a watch that has no second hand. There are sweep wheel removers, I can't say how well they work though. I always groan when I see something  I want that has a sweep wheel now. I like Smiths watches, one of the few English watchmakers that we had, now long since gone. They sometimes have a sweep wheel, but still worth having. Worth noting that Smiths gave Rolex a run for their money in the mid 50s. Very competitive with each other. Check out the story behind it, watches on Everest.

Feel free to barge in whenever you like.  The more input the better. 

I'm not totally up with the terminology either. 

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1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

 

Feel free to barge in whenever you like.  The more input the better. 

I'm not totally up with the terminology either. 

 

2 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

 

Feel free to barge in whenever you like.  The more input the better. 

I'm not totally up with the terminology either. 

So, I've never tinkered with pocket watches,  they're just not my thing, I just like to wear anything I can restore, just makes me feel a little proud of myself for a while and can be a conversation starter. As you may have noticed I can talk for Britain especially  about watches. Tbh it does look very similar to a type Smiths used on their cheaper Welsh stuff also Services and Ingersoll to name but a few.  It's the shape of the balance cock and the click that gives it away for me. The balance cock 1 screw and 3 locating studs which you can see and then the long armed click that you can see reaching around the ratchet wheel finally engaging with it and the crown wheel near the top right. Very common, put in a quick ebay search on those 3 makes, although not used exclusively  to those. I've never come across it on Swiss. I have a few smiths of both qualities.  This was used on their Welsh cheap makes. Look at Smiths Empire. My best guess is either an Ingersoll or a Services.  Don't pay a lot for it !

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3 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  Looks suspiciously like a BFG 866 movemnt Pin lever ron the 60s  a robust movement used in many names.  The sheet is attached.

2529_BFG 866,866.31.7 (2).pdf 3.21 MB · 0 downloads

Thank ww. I've often wondered what calibre this is. I'm mostly into the branding as I love the history of manufacturers, it help me massively when buying. So to help us understand is this what is known as an Ebauche supplied to various watch #suppliers# seems wrong to call them watchmakers or even manufacturers considering  someone else made the movement for them to just case up and slap their name on it.

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7 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  as far as terminology of watch parts etc the attache ment should help, if you already recieved it good if not you may find it handy.

TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf 4.2 MB · 0 downloads

Thanks, I already have it.  Very handy.  I  get confused when movements digress from the ones in the glossary.  Like the one I pictured. 

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2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thank ww. I've often wondered what calibre this is. I'm mostly into the branding as I love the history of manufacturers, it help me massively when buying. So to help us understand is this what is known as an Ebauche supplied to various watch #suppliers# seems wrong to call them watchmakers or even manufacturers considering  someone else made the movement for them to just case up and slap their name on it.

Wow that is so helpful ww, it's just dawned on me now. I see calibe parts labelled  on ebay instead of the maker and don't have a clue what brand they will fit. What might be the best way to find and learn to match up calibres and who used them if that's possible. 

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Hi Never E      the eubauche logo is usually a set of initials in a sheild. The Ebauche made movements for everybody and anybody to fit into cases. as you will notice from the attached doc there are a lot on logos the likes of Peseux, landerton,and others have the sheild  hence Ebauches. Under the balance ther is usually the caliber number of the watch if not there on the plate and or the front plate. These are a must when ordering parts thays why we request pictures along with a question so the members can diagnose a problem sush as a sticky hairspring etc.

Sheffield-Allsport-thread03-logo_reference.jpg

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9 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Never E      the eubauche logo is usually a set of initials in a sheild. The Ebauche made movements for everybody and anybody to fit into cases. as you will notice from the attached doc there are a lot on logos the likes of Peseux, landerton,and others have the sheild  hence Ebauches. Under the balance ther is usually the caliber number of the watch if not there on the plate and or the front plate. These are a must when ordering parts thays why we request pictures along with a question so the members can diagnose a problem sush as a sticky hairspring etc.

Sheffield-Allsport-thread03-logo_reference.jpg

Thanks Ww, I did have a little knowledge  regarding the symbols etc, as I acquired almost a bucketful of quartz watches and movements and spent countless evenings  going through them and practising stripping down saving and labelling the ones that work. One of the best buys I've ever made.  I still have around 400 to get through. Learning how to test the coils and crystals and some of the circuit was good fun. The chart you've supplied I'm going to print off and keep for quick referencing thank you. I want to work out how to know when I see a particular calibre of a watch part for sale what make it will fit. Are there any full lists available that can tell me that information? So if I see a joblot sale of staffs for calibre xyz I know which watch it will fit. For instance if I see a watch I want and the seller admits that the balance has a broken pivot I will then need to know I can get one. 

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Hi Never E   Not one to teach Granny to suck eggs.  If you do a search for the word "mediafire" one of our moderators placed for our benefit the Bestfit Books 1 and ll which are for down load with no restrictions as He owns the CD.  In these books there ia a wealth of info worth haning. As regards buying job lots of staffs etc  its a bit of a lottery but if you know the make and caliber number thats all it takes to find parts , When ordering always quote the make and caliber. ie  AS 1700 but be aware that some calibers within the same family may use the same staff, This is where the site run by Dr Ranfft is a go to ie  Google,  Ranfft  omega 565       and a page appears with all the relavant details of the said watch plus family details staff Number M/s size etc  , as regards your question I think a look at the Ranfft site would be of value.    If you have a bucket full of quartz watches you may find the attachments useful.  What do you use for tecting the quartz watches.

ElectricWatchRepairManual.pdf Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf

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6 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Never E   Not one to teach Granny to suck eggs.  If you do a search for the word "mediafire" one of our moderators placed for our benefit the Bestfit Books 1 and ll which are for down load with no restrictions as He owns the CD.  In these books there ia a wealth of info worth haning. As regards buying job lots of staffs etc  its a bit of a lottery but if you know the make and caliber number thats all it takes to find parts , When ordering always quote the make and caliber. ie  AS 1700 but be aware that some calibers within the same family may use the same staff, This is where the site run by Dr Ranfft is a go to ie  Google,  Ranfft  omega 565       and a page appears with all the relavant details of the said watch plus family details staff Number M/s size etc  , as regards your question I think a look at the Ranfft site would be of value.    If you have a bucket full of quartz watches you may find the attachments useful.  What do you use for tecting the quartz watches.

ElectricWatchRepairManual.pdf 15.67 MB · 0 downloads Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf 825.48 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks ww. That is quite OK I'm I'm very greatful. My teeth are in soak anyway and I need to go basic food shopping. Ranfft has been my first port of call up to now and yesterday added its home page to my phone home. I play with Oris a lot and used  ranfft to help me figure out what I could use for a balance hair I needed for a pointer. I managed to get a family variation to suit what I needed. But recently  noticed that Ranfft don't list every calibre as I've seen others listed else where, might have been on some cousins documents possibly.  My quartz equipment is very basic so please don't laugh when I tell you. A very cheap analog multimeter that I used at work for doing minor electrical works, for the coil and circuit, and a cheap Chinese quartz tester, that I accidentally  discovered it tests crystals or I at least think it does. It sounds like I've stumbled onto the right person to help me with this. I have a boat load of questions about it, I'm waiting to repair a quartz port royal with a detached crystal. 

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1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thanks ww. That is quite OK I'm I'm very greatful. My teeth are in soak anyway and I need to go basic food shopping. Ranfft has been my first port of call up to now and yesterday added its home page to my phone home. I play with Oris a lot and used  ranfft to help me figure out what I could use for a balance hair I needed for a pointer. I managed to get a family variation to suit what I needed. But recently  noticed that Ranfft don't list every calibre as I've seen others listed else where, might have been on some cousins documents possibly.  My quartz equipment is very basic so please don't laugh when I tell you. A very cheap analog multimeter that I used at work for doing minor electrical works, for the coil and circuit, and a cheap Chinese quartz tester, that I accidentally  discovered it tests crystals or I at least think it does. It sounds like I've stumbled onto the right person to help me with this. I have a boat load of questions about it, I'm waiting to repair a quartz port royal with a detached crystal. 

Zenith port royal

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1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

 Its a vintage ladies ( in house) made Oris, should say Oris on the barrel bridge and as said the wheel drives the minute hand, see "independently driven minute wheel" also pin pallet as said.

Dr ranfft hasn't  list this, if memory serves me right it should be caliber 442kif.

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5 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Never E      the eubauche logo is usually a set of initials in a sheild. The Ebauche made movements for everybody and anybody to fit into cases. as you will notice from the attached doc there are a lot on logos the likes of Peseux, landerton,and others have the sheild  hence Ebauches. Under the balance ther is usually the caliber number of the watch if not there on the plate and or the front plate. These are a must when ordering parts thays why we request pictures along with a question so the members can diagnose a problem sush as a sticky hairspring etc.

Sheffield-Allsport-thread03-logo_reference.jpg

Aw ww. Thanks again for that chart its bloody brilliant I will learn loads from it. And some other things you've mentioned  has just made a lot I hadn't quite pieced together all fall into place.

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3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Never E   Not one to teach Granny to suck eggs.  If you do a search for the word "mediafire" one of our moderators placed for our benefit the Bestfit Books 1 and ll which are for down load with no restrictions as He owns the CD.  In these books there ia a wealth of info worth haning. As regards buying job lots of staffs etc  its a bit of a lottery but if you know the make and caliber number thats all it takes to find parts , When ordering always quote the make and caliber. ie  AS 1700 but be aware that some calibers within the same family may use the same staff, This is where the site run by Dr Ranfft is a go to ie  Google,  Ranfft  omega 565       and a page appears with all the relavant details of the said watch plus family details staff Number M/s size etc  , as regards your question I think a look at the Ranfft site would be of value.    If you have a bucket full of quartz watches you may find the attachments useful.  What do you use for tecting the quartz watches.

ElectricWatchRepairManual.pdf 15.67 MB · 0 downloads Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf 825.48 kB · 0 downloads

I was struggling with how much of the circuitry I could test. I thought I'd got quite far with it tbh. My gear is far from being sensitive or accurate, so a lot of diagnosis on the ones I've kept might be way off. But a lot of trial and error and noting readings etc gave me a general idea if they worth keeping. I know some repairs are possible, I've even seen coils repaired by taking a line and resoldering. I even had a go at pulling a coil and manoeuvring it around the coil body, it was great fun but like I said my hands are rock steady. From what I gather the oscillators don't fail often, I stripped  about a hundred from their board and tested them. I even decided to see what they looked like inside, I'm very curious that way. Not sure about the quartz tester I have, it's not digital it's just a sound indication, one of those that can spin the movement to dislodge anything fouling. Not a good idea in my opinion. I've tried loads of crystals on it some give a signal others dont. And an experiment with one that produced a signal, I gave it some stick with a watch hammer, eventually it stopped giving a reading. This is the only reason I suspect that the device actually works.

1649868564680767761482261705358.jpg

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3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Never E   Not one to teach Granny to suck eggs.  If you do a search for the word "mediafire" one of our moderators placed for our benefit the Bestfit Books 1 and ll which are for down load with no restrictions as He owns the CD.  In these books there ia a wealth of info worth haning. As regards buying job lots of staffs etc  its a bit of a lottery but if you know the make and caliber number thats all it takes to find parts , When ordering always quote the make and caliber. ie  AS 1700 but be aware that some calibers within the same family may use the same staff, This is where the site run by Dr Ranfft is a go to ie  Google,  Ranfft  omega 565       and a page appears with all the relavant details of the said watch plus family details staff Number M/s size etc  , as regards your question I think a look at the Ranfft site would be of value.    If you have a bucket full of quartz watches you may find the attachments useful.  What do you use for tecting the quartz watches.

ElectricWatchRepairManual.pdf 15.67 MB · 0 downloads Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf 825.48 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks for the documents, I did get a book on it, it's not heavily detailed though. 'm after Fried's but it's not cheap.

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