Types of movement

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 

So, I've never tinkered with pocket watches,  they're just not my thing, I just like to wear anything I can restore, just makes me feel a little proud of myself for a while and can be a conversation starter. As you may have noticed I can talk for Britain especially  about watches. Tbh it does look very similar to a type Smiths used on their cheaper Welsh stuff also Services and Ingersoll to name but a few.  It's the shape of the balance cock and the click that gives it away for me. The balance cock 1 screw and 3 locating studs which you can see and then the long armed click that you can see reaching around the ratchet wheel finally engaging with it and the crown wheel near the top right. Very common, put in a quick ebay search on those 3 makes, although not used exclusively  to those. I've never come across it on Swiss. I have a few smiths of both qualities.  This was used on their Welsh cheap makes. Look at Smiths Empire. My best guess is either an Ingersoll or a Services.  Don't pay a lot for it !

Hi Richard. How did you get on with the pocket watch ? If you don't mind me asking what are you about with watches.  Collecting ? Repairing ? Both ?

[watchweasol]

I had a very similar one in the early days but it was bloody useless the wires kept on breaking on the battery holder so I took it to bits to replace the wires. The innards were cobbled from something else to work with a little ransformer coil to spin the rotor, the soldering was rubbish so it was  binned and I made a lin release tool from the bits. It was made by Rohan in India and when I mailed them  got no response but I expected that. The facility to test crystals  is not that good I have never chaged a crystal at all , they are easily tested by piggybacking a known good one on the suspect if need be. I will PM you some more gen on Quartz testing.     cheers

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 Its a vintage ladies ( in house) made Oris, should say Oris on the barrel bridge and as said the wheel drives the minute hand, see "independently driven minute wheel" also pin pallet 

If it's Oris it will almost definitely be on the barrel bridge and almost always with the calibre number. Sometimes in a logo shield that looks a little bit like bat wings, the letters OWC. Oris Watch Company. Also sometimes stamped on the inside of the case back. Oris were quite in house , which is why I buy them, I appreciate that they made everything themselves and were family owned. I think that changed sometime around the 90s but I have a feeling the family are still  involved in someway and may have even taken back ownership. I must check. Oris was the name of the little stream that ran alongside the factory.  The name on the dial may not be Oris, they used very uncreative spelling variations lol. Siro (oh dear my neighbour's five year old could have done better ) Oriosa ( very marginally better). They were much better at watchmaking. There probably are a few more but I dread to think what they might be. Sorry Oris, I love your watches but your name branding stunk. If it is OWC then they are ok, I have loads of them still waiting to be repaired. I have 3 Oris tank watches, 2 from the 50s and 1 70s. I paid less than a fiver for each one. They look lovely although the 50s both need a new crystal and have to fit a shaped bezel. The 70s is in almost mint condition and probably  worth 20 fold what I paid,  the others probably  a lot more. Both had Radium lume on them, I've recently noticed my uncotted  fingers are starting to glow.

[RichardHarris123]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi Richard. How did you get on with the pocket watch ? If you don't mind me asking what are you about with watches.  Collecting ? Repairing ? Both ?

Which pocket watch? I have a few. 

A bit of both.  Mainly repair but I am keeping some as exemplars. 

I have kept a Ingersoll Crown as it was my first success, a pin set, cylinder escape ladies pocket watch from about 1919 and a Kienzle wrist watch which has some sentimental value.  The rest are either spare parts, works in progress, gifts or being sold on. 

I have four of the ladies pocket watches, I'm keeping one, one's a gift (pictures to follow) and I'm selling the other two. One of them I have repaired, the other is being sold as jewellery. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Which pocket watch? I have a few. 

A bit of both.  Mainly repair but I am keeping some as exemplars. 

I have kept a Ingersoll Crown as it was my first success, a pin set, cylinder escape ladies pocket watch from about 1919 and a Kienzle wrist watch which has some sentimental value.  The rest are either spare parts, works in progress, gifts or being sold on. 

I have four of the ladies pocket watches, I'm keeping one, one's a gift (pictures to follow) and I'm selling the other two. One of them I have repaired, the other is being sold as jewellery. 

Ah I see, I wasn't sure what stage you were at. The pocket watch that you posted and were asking about what movement it might be. I think I just assumed that it was a potential buy. Did you find out what it was ? What did you think to your German watch, did you work on it ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

13 hours ago, watchweasol said:

I had a very similar one in the early days but it was bloody useless the wires kept on breaking on the battery holder so I took it to bits to replace the wires. The innards were cobbled from something else to work with a little ransformer coil to spin the rotor, the soldering was rubbish so it was  binned and I made a lin release tool from the bits. It was made by Rohan in India and when I mailed them  got no response but I expected that. The facility to test crystals  is not that good I have never chaged a crystal at all , they are easily tested by piggybacking a known good one on the suspect if need be. I will PM you some more gen on Quartz testing.     cheers

Great thank you. If a crystal is suspect then, is it a case of having an already set up wired known working one and connect that in on top of the installed one ? How much do they vary in spec if at all. I have a couple of hundred or so. Differing in size. Some labeled some not.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Great thank you. If a crystal is suspect then, is it a case of having an already set up wired known working one and connect that in on top of the installed one ? How much do they vary in spec if at all. I have a couple of hundred or so. Differing in size. Some labeled some not.

I knew it wouldn't be much cop, but needed something of some description. When I connect a crystal up to it, I do get a one second pulse, is this no real  indication of a working crystal then ? I have a little knowledge about crystals, what they are, vibration rates and so on. I've bored loads of friends with my explanations about them. I think I've patched things up with John btw, a little white flag and a question about Molykote DX worked wonders. Learning from his knowledge alone made it worthwhile. I think my problem now will be making him shut up lol.

[watchweasol]

Hi Most watch crystals operate on a given frequency 32,768 Hz. bergeon had a tool which was a crystal embedded into a pen  the method was to piggy back the suspect crystal and check.  If you have a known working crystal you can make your own.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 4/13/2022 at 2:15 PM, watchweasol said:

Hi Never E   Not one to teach Granny to suck eggs.  If you do a search for the word "mediafire" one of our moderators placed for our benefit the Bestfit Books 1 and ll which are for down load with no restrictions as He owns the CD.  In these books there ia a wealth of info worth haning. As regards buying job lots of staffs etc  its a bit of a lottery but if you know the make and caliber number thats all it takes to find parts , When ordering always quote the make and caliber. ie  AS 1700 but be aware that some calibers within the same family may use the same staff, This is where the site run by Dr Ranfft is a go to ie  Google,  Ranfft  omega 565       and a page appears with all the relavant details of the said watch plus family details staff Number M/s size etc  , as regards your question I think a look at the Ranfft site would be of value.    If you have a bucket full of quartz watches you may find the attachments useful.  What do you use for tecting the quartz watches.

ElectricWatchRepairManual.pdf 15.67 MB · 3 downloads Knowledge Quartz Watch.pdf 825.48 kB · 3 downloads

Morning good ww. And what a lovely day it is in sunny Yorkshire.  I've tried a search Mediafire and nothing is coming up. Could there be some mistake I'm making ? Thanks

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Most watch crystals operate on a given frequency 32,768 Hz. bergeon had a tool which was a crystal embedded into a pen  the method was to piggy back the suspect crystal and check.  If you have a known working crystal you can make your own.

I will try that when I get back to the quartz. Just out of curiosity. When encountered a duff crystal on the tester it very quietly vibrated rapidly but a good one gave a one second pulse. There were many that pulsed and few that vibrated. Any thoughts on this ?

[watchweasol]

The operating frequency is the same.   I supose it may be down to the cut of the crystal and its composition.  they are all cut like a tuning fork.  the CMOS sorts out the dividing abd out puts a 1 sec pulse although i read some where some watches the sweep hand puts out a 2 sec pulse when the battery is low as an indicator but there again its sorted by the CMOS chip.

[Neverenoughwatches]

22 hours ago, watchweasol said:

The operating frequency is the same.   I supose it may be down to the cut of the crystal and its composition.  they are all cut like a tuning fork.  the CMOS sorts out the dividing abd out puts a 1 sec pulse although i read some where some watches the sweep hand puts out a 2 sec pulse when the battery is low as an indicator but there again its sorted by the CMOS chip.

I noticed the pulse rate can be different with watches that have no second hand, anywhere from 5 seconds up to 30 seconds. Apparently saves battery life.  The coil i suppose is activated much less. Less wear on the rotor and gear train with moving less frequently. Although I'm thinking more torque is needed to turn the gearing on the train. Maybe a compromise? Took me a while to figure it out, unit I heard a 5 second pulse, then googled what was happening. Some rotors had practically  turned to dust with overuse and probably poor material  quality.  Thank you for the reply. Ps Omega watches have the second hand jump for low battery.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches
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