Lost Click !

[watchweasol]

Putting on my Deerstalker (sherlock Homes) I would bet it pinged on to your sleeve or chest and as you went for a coffee it fell off onto thr surface and repained there till you found it.   case closed Watson/

[LeCorbusier]

....onto the question about the pinion ... these are pictures which as I say above suggests its a taper pin/arbor arrangement to my novice eye? is there a tutorial/lesson anywhere on removal and refitting?

Also this is a photo of the banking pins ... the one on the right is noticeably splayed?!! is this correct .... and if not how can it have happened?

[watchweasol]

The banking pins have been bent to overcome a problem the previous repairer had do not straighten them up just leave as is untill the watch is running  then see how it goes, straigtening them now may give you problems later.

[Neverenoughwatches]

45 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Putting on my Deerstalker (sherlock Homes) I would bet it pinged on to your sleeve or chest and as you went for a coffee it fell off onto thr surface and repained there till you found it.   case closed 

Good work dear Homes. Elementary, when you have eliminated  the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must then be possible as you often tell me. Ahem. Also a monster magnet and a million candle lume flashlight is very handy. I now need a the light thanks

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

The banking pins have been bent to overcome a problem the previous repairer had do not straighten them up just leave as is untill the watch is running  then see how it goes, straigtening them now may give you problems later.

Would that fix have been made to solve more than one  issue ?

[watchweasol]

Possible ,but it is guessing why it was done. Thats why its best to service the watch and check out the results. If it operates within its parmeters leave it alone if not investigate.

[LeCorbusier]

wouldn't splaying the banking pins potentially change the lift angle?

[watchweasol]

As the lift angle is calculated from the balance swing it may have a direct inpact the site below explains the lift angle

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrIS.WuUVhi5ycAIQJ3Bwx.;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1649984047/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwahawatches.com%2fwatch-talk-whats-the-lift-angle-of-a-watch%2f/RK=2/RS=SbNfVIYyK1PbNAX_QABHYSRXOJ4-

[LeCorbusier]

presumably it will also effect the beat error and the position the impulse jewel should be set at

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Possible ,but it is guessing why it was done. Thats why its best to service the watch and check out the results. If it operates within its parmeters leave it alone if not investigate.

I was silly enough to almost start thinking it was the constant  tap of the pallet fork that bent them. But then decided that was impossible .

[Neverenoughwatches]

29 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

As the lift angle is calculated from the balance swing it may have a direct inpact the site below explains the lift angle

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrIS.WuUVhi5ycAIQJ3Bwx.;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1649984047/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwahawatches.com%2fwatch-talk-whats-the-lift-angle-of-a-watch%2f/RK=2/RS=SbNfVIYyK1PbNAX_QABHYSRXOJ4-

I was wondering if there is any detrimental effect to the watch having an out of beat balance. I've only ever got zero.zero once. Effecting time  is not that much of an issue, if a watch is as much 30 seconds out that's only 3.5 minutes a week, not many peoples schedule is that tight. And a once a week adjustment is no great shake. And a lot I assume will forget to wind their watch at least once a week anyway so there will be some time setting going on during that week. Would big errors cause an abnormal  wear on the balance pivot possibly 

[watchweasol]

Hi  An out of beat watch,  depends on the error too far out and the watch will stop the further away from 0 will eventually affect the rate. Thats why when regulating a watch get the beat as near perfect as possinle then start the regultion.

[LeCorbusier]

On 4/13/2022 at 7:27 PM, LeCorbusier said:

....onto the question about the pinion ... these are pictures which as I say above suggests its a taper pin/arbor arrangement to my novice eye? is there a tutorial/lesson anywhere on removal and refitting?

Also this is a photo of the banking pins ... the one on the right is noticeably splayed?!! is this correct .... and if not how can it have happened?

Am I right that this is a pin and arbor arrangement?

What is the process for refitting once disassembled bearing in mind that I do not yet have a staking set.

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 hours ago, watchweasol said:

As the lift angle is calculated from the balance swing it may have a direct inpact the site below explains the lift angle

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrIS.WuUVhi5ycAIQJ3Bwx.;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1649984047/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwahawatches.com%2fwatch-talk-whats-the

16 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  An out of beat watch,  depends on the error too far out and the watch will stop the further away from 0 will eventually affect the rate. Thats why when regulating a watch get the beat as near perfect as possinle then start the regultion.

The closer the beat the easier the watch starts from a standstill. Some I have need a gentle rotation to get them moving and stop too soon before the power has drained

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, LeCorbusier said:

Am I right that this is a pin and arbor arrangement?

What is the process for refitting once disassembled bearing in mind that I do not yet have a staking set.

 

16 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I was silly enough to almost start thinking it was the constant  tap of the pallet fork that bent them. But then decided that was impossible .

Would bending the banking pins because Heath Robinson way of freeing up a locked impulse jewel ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

 

Would bending the banking pins because Heath Robinson way of freeing up a locked impulse jewel ?

But affect the escapement release in the process, while trying find a compromise between the two ?

[watchweasol]

Bending the bankings will affect the locking on the side which was bent, possible that the stone ws reset and this was a compromise to get it working

[nickelsilver]

The bankings pretty certainly didn't leave the factory like that. The escapement would need to be checked to find out why the entry banking is so bent. A guess from afar: the exit stone has been replaced with a stone too long or moved out for some reason, which means the escapement wouldn't fully escape from the exit side as the fork was against the banking on the entry side. Moving the entry banking pin will allow it to escape, but now in addition to the extra lock on the exit side from the jewel being out too far, there is additional drop and total lock on the entry side. The watch probably runs, but amplitude will suffer very much.

 

I've been trying to find a clear description of the steps to checking and adjusting the lever escapement to share, but so far it's been old confusing texts or nothing. It's not that hard to understand or carry out the adjustments, but without a clear description very daunting. I actually know trained watchmakers from good schools who don't really understand it, so it's not just new/hobby folks who are in the dark. If I have time one of these days maybe I'll put something together. In the repair work I do I probably retouch the escapement on a third of the watches I see- it's an important thing to check and correct.

[VWatchie]

10 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

I've been trying to find a clear description of the steps to checking and adjusting the lever escapement to share, but so far it's been old confusing texts or nothing. It's not that hard to understand or carry out the adjustments, but without a clear description very daunting. I actually know trained watchmakers from good schools who don't really understand it, so it's not just new/hobby folks who are in the dark. If I have time one of these days maybe I'll put something together.

That would be extremely much appreciated! I'd even be willing to pay for it! Folks, please support this idea by liking @nickelsilver's post above!

Edited April 15, 2022 by VWatchie

[LeCorbusier]

no one appears to have noticed my question about the arbor pin arrangement which appears to be how the cannon Pinion is fitted?

I need to remove the centre wheel but only have experience of the standard cannon pinion arrangement.

I have found some threads describing knocking the pin through from the Pinion side releasing the wheel ... but no description so far on how to reassemble? Is the pinion simply pressed back down onto the arbor with tweezers, or is the process more involved?

Thanks for any input. 

[nickelsilver]

2 minutes ago, LeCorbusier said:

no one appears to have noticed my question about the arbor pin arrangement which appears to be how the cannon Pinion is fitted?

I need to remove the centre wheel but only have experience of the standard cannon pinion arrangement.

I have found some threads describing knocking the pin through from the Pinion side releasing the wheel ... but no description so far on how to reassemble? Is the pinion simply pressed back down onto the arbor with tweezers, or is the process more involved?

Thanks for any input. 

Yes, knock it out. If the center wheel is jeweled at the bridge you want the bridge off, and support the center wheel in a hole in a bench block, or better, a staking tool when knocking out the pin. If not jeweled you can leave the bridge on, but still support it on a block with a hole to pass the pin. The pin will go down as far as the top of the cannon pinion, which should be plenty to pull off the CP and the pin out the rest of the way from the center wheel.

 

Going back, push in the pin, (this is with bridge on), support the large end of the pin on a block, and press down the cannon pinion. You may need to press quite hard, or use a staking tool with flat faced punch with hole to pass the pin to get the CP seated all the way.

[LeCorbusier]

Thanks Nickelsilver ... much appreciated. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:32 AM, watchweasol said:

Bending the bankings will affect the locking on the side which was bent, possible that the stone ws reset and this was a compromise to get it working

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:42 AM, nickelsilver said:

The bankings pretty certainly didn't leave the factory like that. The escapement would need to be checked to find out why the entry banking is so bent. A guess from afar: the exit stone has been replaced with a stone too long or moved out for some reason, which means the escapement wouldn't fully escape from the exit side as the fork was against the banking on the entry side. Moving the entry banking pin will allow it to escape, but now in addition to the extra lock on the exit side from the jewel being out too far, there is additional drop and total lock on the entry side. The watch probably runs, but amplitude will suffer very much.

 

I've been trying to find a clear description of the steps to checking and adjusting the lever escapement to share, but so far it's been old confusing texts or nothing. It's not that hard to understand or carry out the adjustments, but without a clear description very daunting. I actually know trained watchmakers from good schools who don't really understand it, so it's not just new/hobby folks who are in the dark. If I have time one of these days maybe I'll put something together. In the repair work I do I probably retouch the escapement on a third of the watches I see- it's an important thing to check and correct.

I've seen Mark do the resetting of pallet jewels, it looks a very fiddly guessing game. I assume a lot of practise is needed

[nickelsilver]

16 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've seen Mark do the resetting of pallet jewels, it looks a very fiddly guessing game. I assume a lot of practise is needed

If done correctly there's no guessing at all- that's the thing, haha. But like I said, even trained (Swiss) watchmakers I've known approach it as a guessing game. Not all, but still surprising.