Rolex 1210 balance spring

[SK2]

I am 69 years old, and had taken on watch repair as my hobby when I retired in 2017.   In the first 3 years, I toyed mainly with Seiko, Miyota and Chinese movement.  With 4years experience behind my back, I recently bought a rolex 1210 movement ( not working ) and took on my first rolex movement repair.  I bought a few parts on line ( balance pallet , second wheel and main spring ) and recently re-assemble the movement back.   I was on the moon,  when I fitted my balance assembly - the watch started to tickle.  It was an awesome experience for my almost 5 hours work.   But very unfortunately,  when I attempedt to tighten the balance bridge , my screw driver slipped and I damaged the hair spring.   Everything came to an end and I felt frustrated and sad. 

I search through the website for many days,  and cannot find stock of the rolex 1210 balance complete.   

After viewing mark video on replacing the balance shaft ,   I got an idea .  To find a hair spring and fit it on my balance complete.    Is  this  a feasible solution ?   And if it is,  what is the best movement hair spring type  which should work on this 1210 balance complete.      It will be easier  to find a cheaper non rolex  balance complete ,  removed the hair spring and fit it onto the 1210.

I need some advice if this is an alternative solution.       Otherwise  I will need to find the 1210 balance complete ,  but unfortunately  it will be expensive for an retiree .

 

Regards,

SK2

[HectorLooi]

I service a 1210 recently. It has a beautiful Breguet overcoil hairspring.

I checked Cousins site, they have a replacement hairspring but the bad news is that it's a restricted item.

But just how badly messed up is your hairspring? How about some pictures?

[Nucejoe]

 It be nice if you can get a replacement spring of the high grade Rolex is.  Any spring compatible with the balance at hand would vibrate with it,  but your watch will be as good as the spring.

Being overcoil further limits your choices of compatible springs. 

So if you are thinking in terms of a replacement spring, prepare your self for a lot of fun.

Good luck pal.

[jdm]

7 hours ago, SK2 said:

 But very unfortunately,  when I attempedt to tighten the balance bridge , my screw driver slipped and I damaged the hair spring. 

How were you seated at the time, was the work at armpit height and near to the eyes?

Was the work kept on a good mov.t holder, on an antslip mat?

Was the driver blade properly dressed, so to wedge into the screw head slot, not touching its bottom, so to grab postively?

Failing to observe these practices (think of them as being mandatory rules) is the most common case of beginner's accidents.

Please post good pictures of the balance, as the hairspring may be repairable.

 

[JohnR725]

13 hours ago, SK2 said:

 I got an idea .  To find a hair spring and fit it on my balance complete.    Is  this  a feasible solution ?   And if it is,  what is the best movement hair spring type  which should work on this 1210 balance complete.      It will be easier  to find a cheaper non rolex  balance complete ,  removed the hair spring and fit it onto the 1210.

One of the universal beginners questions that comes up quite a bit can I replace my hairspring? The typical answer is no you cannot because hairsprings are vibrated to the specific balance wheel that it is on. There is an exception to the rule if the hairspring was premade such as in overcoil where needed very exacting specifications. Then the hairspring can be available separate but usually required changing or modification to the balance screws to get the balance wheel to match the hairspring. But unfortunately hairsprings are easy to damage and acquiring a new hairspring is usually going to be very very difficult. As far as a generic replacement for Rolex hairspring it doesn't exist.

Then one of the problems that comes up with Rolex is what exactly is compatible? If you look out there you'll find discussion groups for people have a Rolex that is running extremely out of specifications but it is running and was purchased as a running watch that has timing issues? This is because Rolex will have a base caliber and a lot of times the watches that use it as a base will be running at a different frequency. Creative individuals will start mixing and matching components to get a running watch that has the wrong hairspring for the wrong balance. So you want to be careful of unscrupulous sellers that generalize things.

12 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I checked Cousins site, they have a replacement hairspring but the bad news is that it's a restricted item.

I wonder if that means cousins has one and it's restricted to who they can sell to or they're just trying to tell us the they can't get them at all?

Then yes according to depending upon which technically sheets you look at they hairspring was available separately.  Sometimes on the older Rolex parts lists they will show that they hairspring was available separately later on they tend to be just balance completes. Like the same older parts list will list all the different timing screws are going to need to match your hairspring the balance wheel.

It may depend upon where in the planet you are because Rolex has different parts policies depending upon where you are. It may be possible to find somebody That has Rolex parts access and they could get you a hairspring but my understanding is even if you have Rolex access to parts none of the vintage parts are available. In other words everything has to go back to Rolex for servicing.

I did find somebody else has parts supposedly.

http://www.scotchwatch.com/rolex_parts_page.html

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Rolex_1210

 

 

 

 

[jdm]

38 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I wonder if that means cousins has one and it's restricted to who they can sell to or they're just trying to tell us the they can't get them at all?

Means they can't get the part by official channels themselves, just like any other Rolex part for that matter. 

[Klassiker]

On 1/1/2022 at 3:28 AM, SK2 said:

my screw driver slipped and I damaged the hair spring.

We need some photos to say if the spring can be repaired. If so, it would be your best option.

[LittleWatchShop]

I see a balance complete on eBay right now.

[LittleWatchShop]

Here

[Plato]

Rolex prices are ridiculous, unless I win the lottery I'm staying well clear of them.

[Nucejoe]

9 hours ago, Klassiker said:

We need some photos to say if the spring can be repaired. If so, it would be your best option.

Good idea K. 

 Even if its broken, its length and other dimensions can be measured which helps choose a lower grade spring. 

 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Plato said:

Rolex prices are ridiculous, unless I win the lottery I'm staying well clear of them.

Not just Rolex watches is a lot of watches that people with relatively little experience should not work on. Either the parts are going to be impossible to get or going to be extremely expensive. Always something to consider when working on a watch that accidents can and do happen and they tend to happen more with less experience.

[SK2]

No need to send photo.  The hair Spring is totally disentangled .  I have only the balance wheel and the bridge assembled on the movement now. If  I manually swing it left and right,  I can see that the pallet fork is clicking and the second hand wheel is rotating.      I only now do not have the hair spring to swing the balance wheel !

[SK2]

I had spend tremendous timein the last 4 years on movements- Seiko, Miyota,  Chinese ETA 2824/36 and 7750  and this rolex  1210 was my first attempt  and it went crazy . 

[SK2]

Yes, I found a 1210 balance complete ( with some defect )  costing a whopping USD 400  and another 1215  New from Swiss  even more whopping at USD 600.    I will not be able to afford to buy such spare parts at these prices.   So, it seemed that I will have to accept to leave the movement in the drawer till I need a solution or a cheaper balance complete.

[jdm]

2 hours ago, SK2 said:

Yes, I found a 1210 balance complete ( with some defect )  costing a whopping USD 400  and another 1215  New from Swiss  even more whopping at USD 600.

One may think of these prices as unreasonable but a Rolex 1210 watch sells starting at €2,000 all the way up to €6,000 and more, you can check chrono24.com. Parts or complete mov.ts are rare and precious, as mentioned work on these should be done only by qualified people, or at least by following the "best practices" I tried to outline before.

Too bad no picture of the hairspring has been posted, despite people asking for these in order to help you better.

 

[SK2]

Thanks jdm for your feedback.  Yes,  the hair spring had been badly entangled and broke away from the balance wheel. I will post it if I still have the hair spring, but unfortunately I threw it away.    Your point is well noted and depending on the responses from a few sources I am checking with,   I may go ahead to purchase the spare .    I am aware of the value of the watch on the market.   Perhaps, it will take a while for me to accept the price of the spare.   Thanks everyone who had given me feedback .  Really appreciate all the concern and efforts .    

[SK2]

This balance wheel on ebay  has  the starting coil close to the next coil .   Do you guys think it is no problem to straighten it out.   

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, SK2 said:

Yes,  the hair spring had been badly entangled and broke away from the balance wheel. I will post it if I still have the hair spring, but unfortunately I threw it away.

For future reference watchmakers never throw anything away. It's why You have to very careful in buying stuff off of eBay material in particular if the packages been opened it's probably the old one. Although it's not just watchmakers that put the old thing back in the package for unsuspecting people to purchase I've seen that happen with machine tool components.

Then in the case of your hairspring the other reason to not throw it away would've been if you can find somebody to vibrate a new one they would have needed the stud and the collet. Because unfortunately generic replacement studs don't fit Rolex watches.

1 hour ago, SK2 said:

Do you guys think it is no problem to straighten it out.   

It's a misleading question has problems. For somebody who's learned how to vibrated hairsprings and knows how to work with hairsprings then it shouldn't be a problem but the picture is hard to see exactly where the problem is. But if you don't have hairspring experience and you not good the outcome probably won't be good either.

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, SK2 said:

I will post it if I still have the hair spring, but unfortunately I threw it away.    

Back to ebay to see how much the roller table plus impluse jewel and stud was worth. 

 

[jdm]

53 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Back to ebay to see how much the roller table plus impluse jewel and stud was worth. 

OP said the hairspring has "broke away from the balance", so he should still have these parts. 

But yes, watchmakers including wannabes newer throw away anything. I didn't write that myself because I didn't wanted to be lecturing all the time. 

[LittleWatchShop]

49 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

For future reference watchmakers never throw anything away

LOL..this is true even for amateur watchmakers like myself!!

But, it is beyond watchmaking for me...I save every screw, bolt, nut, spring, funny-shaped piece of metal with hole on end and a tab on the other...

[HectorLooi]

7 hours ago, SK2 said:

This balance wheel on ebay  has  the starting coil close to the next coil .   Do you guys think it is no problem to straighten it out.   

What you are seeing is the overcoil. I think the hairspring is fine.

[Plato]

21 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

What you are seeing is the overcoil. I think the hairspring is fine.

I think he's right, it's out of shape near the collet and on the overcoil too. 

[SK2]

8 hours ago, jdm said:

OP said the hairspring has "broke away from the balance", so he should still have these parts. 

But yes, watchmakers including wannabes newer throw away anything. I didn't write that myself because I didn't wanted to be lecturing all the time. 

Ha ha,  the hair spring is badly entangled and broke off from the balance wheel , and in frustration working on that damn guy for 5 hours,  I threw it into the trash bin.     I went back to look for it two days later, but my wife disposed off the trash bin.   So , here I am without the hair spring .     Just have the balance wheel  and the bridge.