Which Clock Have You Got Coming In The Mail (or you are picking up)? Show Us !!!

[oldhippy]

If its an Enfield you do not need to post photos. 

[watchweasol]

Hi If your clock looks like the image s  attached  all the count work is done via the snail cam (on the center shaft) the gathering pallet, the rack, and the strike wheel. once the warning has released its stopped by the long lever, when the center cam drops its lever the long lever falls an releases the the warning wheel and the count starts. The lever dros onto the snail which controls the amount that the rack drops and the gathering pallet then counts back the appropriate number untill the sequence is counted and the rack is back in the locked position .  No physical count wheel like the American Ansonia clocks.

[oldhippy]

Strike side of a Smiths Enfield strike

Fan

Warning wheel with pin

Gathering pallet wheel

Star wheel

Great wheel

Barrel

[Michael1962]

I just found these on my phone so thought I would post them.

Takes away any confusion from my possibly erroneous posts and descriptions.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Michael1962

[oldhippy]

The last photo gives you a good clear view of how the wheels go into the plates. See my list of the strike side and look at the picture and try to remember it. The going side is

Escape Wheel

Intermediate wheel some times called the third wheel

Center wheel 

Great wheel going side 

Barrel

The great wheel on the going side is much larger then the one on the strike side so remember that.

This is the most common set up for wheel trains in clocks. As I said you do come across odd counts which will add a wheel or in very rear cases less wheels. 

Barrels, caps and arbors. Mark the barrels and caps before taking them apart with a marker pen or similar always keep them away from each other. 

[Michael1962]

Thanks @oldhippy. My time as a fitter would have automatically had me keeping barrel assemblies and springs together s sets anyway, but the info is great. Thanks.

Your descriptions of the wheel trains makes understanding the picture much easier. Thanks for that.

Doesn’t mean I’m not going to take photos though. The movement has a few bushes in the plates. Mostly invisible on the insides of the plates, but you can definitely see them on the outside of the plates. I would suggest they are kit bushes as you can see the outer diameter of the bushes in the holes in the plates. Everything seems to move very well so I would say the work has been done fairly well. At least I have a movement now that I can learn on without being worried about it too much. I may possibly even practice rbushing some of the holes. Gets me on the lathe and gets me practising and learning.

Back to fitting practices, just on a smaller scale.

 

[oldhippy]

You description tells me the clock has been bushed with those ready made bushes, they are OK for this type of movement, but you cant do invisible re-bushing. As you have a lathe why not buy some bushing brass rods and practice making you own, practice countersinking, measure pivots length & diameter and the thickness of the clock plates. That is the way to learn how to invisible re-bush. Get your self a few counter sink tools. If you get the chance to repair a French Carriage clock or any clock that you can see the movement the last thing you want to see is ugly re-bushing. Brass bussing rod can be bought on line any good suppliers.     

[Michael1962]

I already have a fair bit of brass that I have salvaged from some pins that are used at the place where I work. What I don't know is the composition of this brass. I think I can find out though. Just not sure if it will be ok to use. Don't suppose anyone knows the composition of bushing brass?

And you're right @oldhippy, my thoughts are exactly as you have said. Practice using this movement as a donor. Get good at part nomenclature. Understand the ratios. Understand what timing is required between certain parts of the movement for it to function correctly. My question regarding where the strike warning wheel pin should be was from my first ham fisted effort to get the rear plate back on after I had removed the great wheel and the fly. I think the pillars are slightly out to the holes in the rear plate as it took a bit of mucking around to get it all to line up so that I could get the plate back on. I know for a fact that the warning wheel lost its mesh with the third wheel. I am just lucky that it is in a position where the timing still works and I can watch how it all works together.

I'm really looking forward to this.

Joe Collins mainspring winder is getting cut by my friend up the road this weekend. I just have to get hold of some different size stainless steel tube to make myself some spring holders. I'm going to base the sizes on the C clamps that I bought.

I have some other ideas for making myself some tools. I'll see how it goes.

[oldhippy]

This site will tell you about brass. 

[KarlvonKoln]

Just brought this home from a local thrift shop.  In an effort to step out of my "comfort zone" of pocket watches,  I saw this charming old Hamilton on a shelf, needing some TLC, and decided to buy it.  It was only $35, so not too dear.

Now, my knowledge of clocks is sparce, and is primarily mechanical - and related to function.  I'm a little ignorant regarding striking clocks.   This one seems of good quality and I am familiar with the Hamilton name.  And it has a floating balance, and I am more used to working on balances than I am upon pendulums.

All that said, if O.H. or any of the rest of you clock veterans have any tips or caveats, feel free to share.  I am preparing to clean, and to locate my clock oil.  And I plan to search the forum for wood refinishing posts, and how to tell if a clock needs bushings, and other fun stuff. 

Wish me luck.

[watchweasol]

Hi Karl    It may be stamped  Hamilton  But the movement is Hermle 340-020 probably a bought in movement. done a few of these they are nice clocks .

Its an eight day Westminster chime movement with underslung hammers. the Floating balance is a nice feature and as long as its not maltreated in any way, very good.   Cleaning and oiling the balance ,  when dry its recommended that you use Moebius 8000s  but I have always used Windle's on the top and bottom of the tube carrying the wire.  Its beat rate is 150 BPH. Never had one to bush as yet.  For $35 a cracking buy. I did one for a friend some time back that he retrieved form the repairers after a 3 month wait and a quote for £300 plus.

[KarlvonKoln]

5 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Karl    It may be stamped  Hamilton  But the movement is Hermle 340-020 probably a bought in movement. done a few of these they are nice clocks .

Its an eight day Westminster chime movement with underslung hammers. the Floating balance is a nice feature and as long as its not maltreated in any way, very good.   Cleaning and oiling the balance ,  when dry its recommended that you use Moebius 8000s  but I have always used Windle's on the top and bottom of the tube carrying the wire.  Its beat rate is 150 BPH. Never had one to bush as yet.  For $35 a cracking buy. I did one for a friend some time back that he retrieved form the repairers after a 3 month wait and a quote for £300 plus.

I know the Hermle name also.  I wondered about that. I've worked on a Hermle before too.  It was nicely made.  This one is like that.  It seems fairly robust compared to my Linden 8-day.  The wheels are thicker and the teeth more crisply cut it seems.  Thanks for the beat rate and the other tips.  I think I will stick with Windle's here.

[Michael1962]

The balance spring looks very similar to the spring on the Heetich that I am restoring. 

[oldhippy]

These movements wear a lot because they are not made of really hard brass or steel. Its modern and modern is never as good at wear as really old brass and steel. As far as I know you can still buy parts for Hermle clocks. I always oiled the floating balance ends with pocket watch oil. Oil the escape wheel every other tooth not the pallet pins as the pallet pins will pick up the oil as the escape wheel rotates. 

[Michael1962]

8 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

The balance spring looks very similar to the spring on the Heetich that I am restoring. 

Bugger. Hettich.

[KarlvonKoln]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

These movements wear a lot because they are not made of really hard brass or steel. Its modern and modern is never as good at wear as really old brass and steel. As far as I know you can still buy parts for Hermle clocks. I always oiled the floating balance ends with pocket watch oil. Oil the escape wheel every other tooth not the pallet pins as the pallet pins will pick up the oil as the escape wheel rotates. 

Thank you, Watchweasol and OH both, for confirming it to be a Hermle.  I know a couple good places to get Hermle parts, and I know a clock technician personally who services mostly Black Forrest stuff and he stocks Hermle parts at his shop.  So I won't be worrying about parts.  
And thanks to @oldhippy for the oiling tips; I'm going to try that.  As to wear - I don't think there is very much.  Aside from gunky old oil, the wheels look like they were just cut.  Considering that when I opened the back, it had a sort of musty, old-house smell, and there were two cobwebs and a crumpled Beeman's gum wrapper in there, I think this clock has not been used in a few decades.  I think it spent much of its recent life in an attic or cellar or some such.  It sounds like horrible treatment, but all I can think is that someone must not have appreciated such a nice clock - digging it out of a long period of storage, only to donate it to a thrift shop.  Ah well, their loss...my gain.  I shall now have at least one more striking clock adding to the background noise of my little house.  That is fine; it is a quieter clock than most.

Edited September 2, 2022 by KarlvonKoln

[watchweasol]

I think what happens is people buy chiming clocks as they sound nice, then as time goes on the quarter chime gets annoying and eventually they get fed up of it and they are confined to attics/cellars or a little used room.  I did a charles Frodsham three train clock for a friend which had not been going for some time and exactly that happened. In modern times there are so many ways to tell the time, Mobiles, smart watches, talking clocks/watches the humble clock gets side lined shame nut true.

[oldhippy]

That's why many chiming clocks are fitted with a silent turn on or off. Striking clocks you just bend the hammer away from the bell or gong, but it is best to wind both sides up as some movements can and do jam up which will stop the clock. French clocks are a bugger for that. 

[Kalanag]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

…it is best to wind both sides up as some movements can and do jam up which will stop the clock. French clocks are a bugger for that. 

Same with my Kieninger here. After years of useless winding I finally solved the problem by blocking the fly with a bit of Rodico.

 

[oldhippy]

Nice movement. 

[KarlvonKoln]

Yes, from what I can see, the Kieninger mechanism does look nice.  I've heard of those.
And I will certainly be winding all barrels.  I like the sound of mechanical striking clocks.  I grew up with them.  My parents and grandparents all had them.  And they kept them wound and in good order.  I was always surrounded by that sound.  When I first moved out on my own, I didn't have a clock with me, and on my days off from work it was so quiet at the apartment that I almost went mad.  After that I got a clock.

[watchweasol]

The sound I find comforting,  athough the misses hates the sound but as a compromise I am allowed my cuckoo clock. silence has its place tho

[Michael1962]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:28 PM, oldhippy said:

You description tells me the clock has been bushed with those ready made bushes, they are OK for this type of movement, but you cant do invisible re-bushing. As you have a lathe why not buy some bushing brass rods and practice making you own, practice countersinking, measure pivots length & diameter and the thickness of the clock plates. That is the way to learn how to invisible re-bush. Get your self a few counter sink tools. If you get the chance to repair a French Carriage clock or any clock that you can see the movement the last thing you want to see is ugly re-bushing. Brass bussing rod can be bought on line any good suppliers.     

I can buy bushing wire here as well. I have to check with the supplier as to the internal holes sizes. Not real clear on the website.

When you say counter sink tools, are you referring to the 'sell-a-kidney' Bergeon ones? I haven't seen many others for sale and I'll admit I have not seen many tools on ebay here at all. I had a thought to making my own countersink tools out of square tool steel, but my grinding wheel is just not a fine enough grade to be up to the task.

[watchweasol]

Hi  The lacquer on the plates is a bit rough are you going to polish the plates and re do them. It will enhance the look of the clock. and might also polish in the bushes and make them less visible.

[oldhippy]

This is the sort ofcountersinks I had and I also made a few bigger ones.