Which Clock Have You Got Coming In The Mail (or you are picking up)? Show Us !!!

[watchweasol]

Well that takes the biscuit and no mistake. Its a wonder that the thing held together at all, truely as OH remarkes " A Bloody Mess"

[RogerH]

On 11/18/2021 at 7:49 AM, RogerH said:

I've yet to put my GB mantle on the bench but in the meantime, this wee beauty was at an auction. I wasn't going to buy it but when it dropped to just £10 I couldn't resist! It's in quite a state but the cabinet has potential - love the window and the movement looks whole (it came with a bag of bits including the suspension spring and various bits of wood) but needs a lot of TLC. Maker appears to be HAC but I've not seen one like this before.

So, I've finally got this on the bench and its actually in reasonable condition just covered in oil. I'm a bit loathed to put it straight in the dip tank - I'm using H&P Story at the moment- I'm worried I would just contaminate it,  is there something else I could use as a pre clean, just to clean off all the excess gunge?

 

[watchweasol]

Hi   Petrol is ok to clean them down  I some times use white spirit, Having got rid of all the gunk then clean in the normal way should be ok. Springs will have to be clamped or tie wrwpped down for removal.

[oldhippy]

The movement is a  Hamburg American Clock Company or HAC. Clean it in Horolene clock cleaner, don't forget to remove the two springs from the barrels first. 

[Michael1962]

I’ll be picking this up some time in the next couple of weeks. 

[oldhippy]

That's a nice American Ansonia strike I like the case decoration looks in good condition. Have you repaired American open spring strike movements before? 

[Michael1962]

No @oldhippy. It will sit with my ever-growing collection while I do more reading and educating myself.

Getting c-clamps, punches and other things. Oils etc. I have to bite the bullet at some point and get myself some simple clocks as you suggested to me many months back. I have got myself some nice clocks now and the last thing I want to do is bugger them up.

I have a bunch of brass so I won't need to worry about buying anything if I need some. Have mucked around a bit on the little Unimat which has been enjoyable.

Fortunately, I do have a second Hettich which has the same movement as my grandmothers clock that I am restoring. So at least I have something simple that has the little intricacy of the light copper hairspring which powers the movement when the weight gets lifted by the solenoid. I have already reshaped the hairspring on the second movement as it was al bit out of shape.

Have had to do a fair bit around the house lately and have not had a lot of time to myself.

I do have one question if anyone knows?

Is it normal for these bezels to be attached to the case using what looks like a couple of wood screws through the brass?

I have an idea to fix this. Will say more once I get a chance to look at it.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Michael1962

[Michael1962]

I have just found an old and needing case work, strike only Enfield that is up in the Northern Territory.

The ad says chimes, but I thought if it doesn't have the Westminster chimes, it would be a strike only clock? 'Strike' announces the hour etc, 'Chimes' are well, chimes.

I have sent the seller a message asking if they still have it. They are not prepared to parcel up and send the clock, but my brother lives in the NT and would happily do that for me.

Case may need to be reveneered and the photo that I could see of the movement, it is quite dirty, but that is the NT for you.

[oldhippy]

A lot of people mistake strike for chimes I've noticed it a lot on ebay. You are correct it is just a strike. How much do they want for it? 

[Michael1962]

$30

[oldhippy]

That's a good  price. 

[Michael1962]

Well I bought the Enfield mantle clock. My brother picks it up tomorrow and will pack it up and send it down.

Our house had two clocks. It now has eight. The lovely wife doesn't know about this one yet.

Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

[Michael1962]

I pick up the Ansonia tomorrow. My brother will be sending the Enfield mantle clock down some time next week. Hopefully I'll be at work when the package gets here.

[Michael1962]

I picked up the Ansonia today. And while it is a strike, instead of a nice musical chime, you get a more musica............<doonk> noise. I also put the pendulum on it and gave it a nudge, ticking away but that is not right either. Tick, tock then a longer pause before the next tick, tock.

So there are things for me to look for. The hammer doesn't strike the number of times as indicated by the hour. The hammer stays in contact with the gong after it strikes. And the tick,tock,,,,,,,tick,tock reason needs to be found. Some tools arrived today. One of them being a set of C ring spring retainers. Have got to get my mate up the road to laser cut the wooden parts to make a Joe Collins mainspring winder. Have got everything I need, so then I'll be able to do a bit more than look at them.

I also have the Enfield coming from Darwin. My wife said after I picked up the Ansonia today, "Let's make this the last clock until you move some along". I'm going to be in strife when the Enfield gets here. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Michael1962

[Michael1962]

Hi everyone. I have been absent on here for awhile. Not by intention, just stuff. Friend across the road, working from home, has his morning meeting with his colleagues, then tells his wife, Kylie, he is going to have a shower. Yells to Kylie that he needs her. Kylie gets to him in the bathroom. He is lying on the floor and says to her that he thinks he was having a stroke. 16 hours later, Bill has left us. One thing that Kylie said in her speech after Bill's burial. "Live every day as if it were your last." Don't know who first said that, but it is oh so true.

That and working with my mate up the road to make a Joe Collins spring winder. Also been investigating getting a 3D printer to make movement stands, tool holders, things for the lovely wife. I need to do something nice for her as she was none too happy about the clock from Darwin. Weathered that storm and the movement is now sitting on a block of wood after I removed the back plate to remove the first(?) wheel in the going train, the pallet Arbor the suspension spring and the crutch and then the first(?) wheel in the strike train as well as the fly. Then had a rather hamfisted effort getting the rear plate back on, but eventually got it all done. Did notice that the rear movement plate had at least four bushed pivot holes. While they are visible, distances have been kept correct as everything that I have turned moves quite freely. I am not sure if I have the terms correct for the wheels that I have removed. I have had a bit of trouble deciphering some of Mr. De Carle's pictures in his book.

Anyway, this has enabled me to sit there and turn the going train easily as well as keeping light pressure on the strike train and I can see how the parts interact.

I presume that it is the strike flirt that stops the strike warning wheel from turning. The hour wheel and the snail I have been able to work out. Beind the hour wheel is a small cam (possibly for want of a better word) that another arm that is attached to the strike flirt, runs on. It is responsible for a single strike on the half hour as well as releasing the strike warning wheel before the hour strike. I now understand how the flirt works with the snail and the rack and the gathering pallet to strike the hour. It is all quite ingenious really.

I am fairly sure that the releasing of the strike warning wheel and its subsequent capture by the strike flirt occurs simply due to the larger cam behind the hour wheel that operates the strike flirt approaching the hour. If the warning wheel wheel was not captured, the clock would strike the hour several minutes early as the rack hook has released the rack as well as the gathering pallet at that time.

When I get around to disassembling the movement to clean everything and then reassemble it, I don't think that I will be able to remove the clicks and springs for the two barrels. The parts look to be riveted to the rear movement plate.

Anyway, that is where I am up to now. That and cleaning in our garage to make more space. Skip bin later and we are getting there.

Hope everyone is well.

[Michael1962]

I'm actually going to correct my previous post. I'm glad that I saw this and didn't have it pointed out to me. The strike flirt releases the gathering pallet on the half hour strike as well. The strike flirt arrests the warning wheel and the strike then waits for the flirt to fall off the cam on the hour wheel. Then it strikes the half hour. So the same action as the strike at the hour except for the amount that the flirt is moved based on the cam behind the hour wheel.

Gee, I hope I have got most of the terms correct for the parts.

I'm either going to look like I have a clue, or I'm going to look like an absolute numpty.  

Edited August 18, 2022 by Michael1962

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael    yep you got that right,  I have attached a few odds and ends which you might find helpful.  When you start the Ansonia clock I have some more picks on the "J"levers set up  or look up David La Bounty a NAWCC member who is an expert on them.

[Michael1962]

I have another question. No doubt, part of a litany of questions that will just keep appearing in my head. 
Is there a set number of teeth that the gathering pallet should lead the pin on the strike warning wheel by? Or is it just enough teeth so that the step on the gathering pallet moves under the catch of the rack hook?

[oldhippy]

As you look at the wheel that has the warning pin that is next to the fly wheel imagine you are looking at a clock face the pin needs to around the 10 to or there about. The rack if its a rack striking  should drop onto the Snail this will then strike the number one tooth at a time will be gathered by the gathering pallet. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by oldhippy

[Michael1962]

That's what I have @oldhippy.

I now have another question. Well, two questions.

I have removed the first two wheels that are between the barrels and the going train (?) and the strike train (?). What are both of these called?

I am trying to decipher the drawing in Mr.De Carle's book, but I cannot see these two wheels unless one is called the time intermediate wheel and the other the strike intermediate wheel. He also confused me a bit when he says that to check the escapement, apply force to the fourth wheel in the normal direction, though as best as I can tell, he is talking about the third wheel, which is the wheel directly before the escape wheel in the train. He also does not show a fourth wheel on his explosion diagram.

And is it just me or should there be a going train (?) second wheel in the diagrams as well?

By the way, I count 5 question marks. So much for 'just two questions'.

On 8/17/2022 at 9:29 PM, Michael1962 said:

Hi everyone. I have been absent on here for awhile. Not by intention, just stuff. Friend across the road, working from home, has his morning meeting with his colleagues, then tells his wife, Kylie, he is going to have a shower. Yells to Kylie that he needs her. Kylie gets to him in the bathroom. He is lying on the floor and says to her that he thinks he was having a stroke. 16 hours later, Bill has left us. One thing that Kylie said in her speech after Bill's burial. "Live every day as if it were your last." Don't know who first said that, but it is oh so true.

That and working with my mate up the road to make a Joe Collins spring winder. Also been investigating getting a 3D printer to make movement stands, tool holders, things for the lovely wife. I need to do something nice for her as she was none too happy about the clock from Darwin. Weathered that storm and the movement is now sitting on a block of wood after I removed the back plate to remove the first(?) wheel in the going train, the pallet Arbor the suspension spring and the crutch and then the first(?) wheel in the strike train as well as the fly. Then had a rather hamfisted effort getting the rear plate back on, but eventually got it all done. Did notice that the rear movement plate had at least four bushed pivot holes. While they are visible, distances have been kept correct as everything that I have turned moves quite freely. I am not sure if I have the terms correct for the wheels that I have removed. I have had a bit of trouble deciphering some of Mr. De Carle's pictures in his book.

Anyway, this has enabled me to sit there and turn the going train easily as well as keeping light pressure on the strike train and I can see how the parts interact.

I presume that it is the strike flirt that stops the strike warning wheel from turning. The hour wheel and the snail I have been able to work out. Beind the hour wheel is a small cam (possibly for want of a better word) that another arm that is attached to the strike flirt, runs on. It is responsible for a single strike on the half hour as well as releasing the strike warning wheel before the hour strike. I now understand how the flirt works with the snail and the rack and the gathering pallet to strike the hour. It is all quite ingenious really.

I am fairly sure that the releasing of the strike warning wheel and its subsequent capture by the strike flirt occurs simply due to the larger cam behind the hour wheel that operates the strike flirt approaching the hour. If the warning wheel wheel was not captured, the clock would strike the hour several minutes early as the rack hook has released the rack as well as the gathering pallet at that time.

When I get around to disassembling the movement to clean everything and then reassemble it, I don't think that I will be able to remove the clicks and springs for the two barrels. The parts look to be riveted to the rear movement plate.

Anyway, that is where I am up to now. That and cleaning in our garage to make more space. Skip bin later and we are getting there.

Hope everyone is well.

correction

When I get around to disassembling the movement to clean everything and then reassemble it, I don't think that I will be able to remove the clicks and springs for the two barrels. The parts look to be riveted to the front movement plate.

I'm such a silly duffer.

[oldhippy]

This should help you. this is the bog standard one. There are others with variations on wheel and pinion counts.  

 

[Michael1962]

So is Count Wheel referring to the gear on the barrel or the barrel itself?

What is the Time Intermediate Wheel that is in Mr. De Carle's book?

The clock that I have here that I am slowly taking to pieces and am learning on sets up differently to your drawing @oldhippy

As best as I can tell with my limited knowledge, but a bit of nous I would like to think, the second wheel on this movement directly drives the centre wheel(third wheel?) which drives the fourth, then the escape wheel.

On the strike side, the second wheel drives the third wheel which incorporates the strike star wheel, then the fourth, then the fly wheel(strike warning wheel?) which would drive the fly which I have also removed as I am holding this movement in my hands and moving it all about and the last thing I need to do is mash the fly up.

This movement has 3 gears between the time barrel and the escape wheel, but it has 4 gears between the strike barrel and the fly.

What is a Count Wheel?

[watchweasol]

On the drawing Old Hippy Supplied  The barrel on the strike side is labled count wheel (strike barrel or first wheel), on the other side it is labled time side main wheel (Time or Going barrel) or time sine first wheel. As you look at the drawing on the left there are two circles the larger of the two being the barrel and the smaller being the count wheel, This is the wheel with the divisions/slots in in which the count lever operated initiating the strike count.  If it is an American Ansonia movement it will use the lever setup below. If its European They use the rack and gathering pallet plus the snail cam on the main shaft which selects the number of the strike an the teeth the gathering pallet will pick up on the racks per the second image. 

American Clock Striking Levers.pdf

Could you post a picture of the movement you are working on

[oldhippy]

Can you show me the movement. The count wheel is normally the wheel on the strike side it is the wheel that is used to determine the number of strikes the clock makes. Here are two photos showing count wheel striking the first is from an American movement the second is from a French movement with the French movement the count wheel is on the outside of the back plate, the American one is on the inside of the plate. I have marked both with a red arrow. 

[Michael1962]

I'll post some photos up tomorrow. The clock is an Enfield unless I am mistaken. Movement is stamped Made In England.