Tips on sourcing vtg fancy crystal

[MikeRaleighNC]

Hello friends - I have (what I believe to be) a late 1920's Norris Alister Ball Bridges men's watch branded Garland. The Ball Watch Co went by Norris et al for a few years around this time. My research indicates the movement is a Cortebert cal 583 15 jewel decorated ebauche.

In any event, the glass crystal is cracked, and my searches on ofrei and other suppliers have limited we examples that are tailored to specific models (e.g., Elgin, Longines, etc.). The glass is curved and is 22.0mm square with the corner facets being 4mm.

Any tips? Thanks in advance! - Mike

[Nucejoe]

As a last resort, one can possibly be custom made for it. 

The crystal guy can tell by the picture if he can make one which Himself would fit it in your watch, then you need to ship him the case, costs you about the same as a ready made one and  the quality depends on the crystal sheet available. 

Regs 

joe

 

 

 

[MikeRaleighNC]

Thanks Joe. Any references to crystal guys?

[jdm]

5 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

The crystal guy can tell by the picture if he can make one 

Can a "crystal guy" make a curved crystal? I doubt he can, but if he does the cost would be prohibitive, due to the need to make custom molds.

[Nucejoe]

36 minutes ago, jdm said:

Can a "crystal guy" make a curved crystal? I doubt he can, but if he dies the cost would be prohibitive, due to the need to make custom molds.

I don't know  J, will send him these pix, he will tell us about it.

1 hour ago, MikeRaleighNC said:

Thanks Joe. Any references to crystal guys?

Will send him pix of your watch and PM you his answer.

 He doesn't understand English, in case he can make one, you would ship directly to him, I be your guys interpreter, honest guy, I vouch for him, I just need to find someone who vouches for me. 

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, MikeRaleighNC said:

Thanks Joe. Any references to crystal guys?

He says yes one can be made.

You might find crystal sheets at material houses, he says he is not proud of the crystal sheets he last bought.

Let me know if and when you decide on this alternative.

Regs 

Joe

 

 

 

[MikeRaleighNC]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

I don't know  J, will send him these pix, he will tell us about it.

Will send him pix of your watch and PM you his answer.

 He doesn't understand English, in case he can make one, you would ship directly to him, I be your guys interpreter, honest guy, I vouch for him, I just need to find someone who vouches for me. 

Joe - consider this a test; a trial. If things go right, I'll vouch for you in the future.

[jdm]

3 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

You might find crystal sheets at material houses

Yes, but crystal sheets are flat, or at most curved one axis, here the challenge is making a crystal which is curved on two axis is with an almost square contour. If it wasn't, any reputable optician can cut watch glass.

If the OP wants to try to have this crystal made overseas I suggest that a mock case is cut from an easy material like 2mm thick aluminum. Once it fits the original crystal it can be shipped without risk.

[Nucejoe]

 I have had several made for me, I don't have a sample at home to show as I keep my watches in bank safe deposit box,

Based on my experience I can say, find a quality material and you would be happy with the results. They are called watch crystal blanks and sometimes come in preformed but  unfinished shapes. Esslinger got them.

https://www.esslinger.com/shaped-glass-watch-crystal-blanks/

Blank plus forming of what he got costs you about the same as the price of the blank above.

 

 

 

 

 

[jdm]

24 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

They are called watch crystal blanks and sometimes come in preformed but  unfinished shapes.

Once again, there are curved on one axis. Not two like the the OP's.

[Nucejoe]

1 minute ago, jdm said:

Once again, there are curved on one axis. Not two like the the OP's.

The blanks are.

 I,ll reiterate this with him, informed him of the two axis curve. 

 

 

[MikeRaleighNC]

Th

8 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

The blanks are.

 I,ll reiterate this with him, informed him of the two axis curve. 

 

 

Thanks y'all. To confirm, the glass is curved on both axises; meets all edges at a flat plane. 

[jdm]

12 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

The blanks are.

Are curved on two axis? I don't think so, if they are, post an exact link, thanks. 

[JohnR725]

out of curiosity if you look on the inside of the case back does it indicate who made the case and perhaps a case number?

I have some links below that you might find helpful. First link you can download the catalog. If you're lucky you might find a crystal it fits your case. Is have to find the shape of your crystal and then make sure that the curves correspond to the crystal you have. If you slightly unlucky you may bill find something a little bit bigger they made out of plastic and you can just file limit the fact at least a tiny amount.

The second link is just another source of crystals at good prices.

The blank is the people who have the catalog. The last time I looked on their website I think they do custom crystals so more than likely they could do a custom crystal of the exact nature of yours it's also possible that they might have your crystal.

 

https://www.esslinger.com/gs-watch-crystals/

https://tiptopcrystals.com/

https://www.gssupplies.com/crystal-catalogs/

 

[Nucejoe]

17 minutes ago, jdm said:

Are curved on two axis? I don't think so, if they are, post an exact link, thanks. 

I meant the esslinger blanks are curved on one axis only. 

 

 

[MikeRaleighNC]

50 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

out of curiosity if you look on the inside of the case back does it indicate who made the case and perhaps a case number?

I have some links below that you might find helpful. First link you can download the catalog. If you're lucky you might find a crystal it fits your case. Is have to find the shape of your crystal and then make sure that the curves correspond to the crystal you have. If you slightly unlucky you may bill find something a little bit bigger they made out of plastic and you can just file limit the fact at least a tiny amount.

The second link is just another source of crystals at good prices.

The blank is the people who have the catalog. The last time I looked on their website I think they do custom crystals so more than likely they could do a custom crystal of the exact nature of yours it's also possible that they might have your crystal.

 

https://www.esslinger.com/gs-watch-crystals/

https://tiptopcrystals.com/

https://www.gssupplies.com/crystal-catalogs/

 

Thanks for this. I've looked at each of these as part of my diligence before posting here, and none have models that correspond to my case's make and model. The case is marked as Norris Alister Ball Bridges Co., and has "181." This number is also marked on the case middle (see original pic w/ mvmt) and case front piece (crystal retaining piece; it's a 3 piece case). Doesn't help that the maker only went by this name for a few years but perhaps this case style was used by Ball or other makers using the same Cortebert ebauche. I truly appreciate everyone's contributions to this discussion, even if this crystal dosen't exist!

[JohnR725]

go to the third link that I gave that's the GS crystal company. Send them a message and tell them what you have and see if they have a crystal for you plus they will make a custom crystal it be interesting to find out how expensive it's going to be but since are in the crystal business maybe it wouldn't be that much.

Here's the problem with crystals? One of the local people for a while had a material house and he also purchased a few material houses ended up with a heck of a lot of crystals. They did come to the hobby school that teaches watch repair and lecture the students on crystals. So what did we find out well there's a heck of a lot of crystals that were made. Did you know there was a crystal of the month club for watchmakers? Basically each month they would get a crystal assortment. Probably the crystal assortments are you only use one or two out of each assortment of the rest of it just sits there.

Or GS crystals because the recognized you go to a nawcc regional meeting and somebody's trying to sell the crystal cabinets they want all this money because each crystals worth this much in a whole cabinet must be worthless. But once again like when you look at the catalog how many of those crystals to actually need. This means you see crystal assortments even on eBay where they're practically nothing because out of that hole assortments are going be lucky if you can find one crystal you're ever going to need.

This means in your case if you get a specialty crystal the chance of finding one is practically nonexistent but GS does say on the website they will make a custom crystal.

Then if you're really enthusiastic the SLA 3-D printers these are resin-based printers they do have some transparent resin . some of the resins I saw were translucent but they actually do have optical clear resins now which means for almost to the point or may be at the point where if you're creative you could conceivably print your own crystals.

 

[MikeRaleighNC]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

go to the third link that I gave that's the GS crystal company. Send them a message and tell them what you have and see if they have a crystal for you plus they will make a custom crystal it be interesting to find out how expensive it's going to be but since are in the crystal business maybe it wouldn't be that much.

Here's the problem with crystals? One of the local people for a while had a material house and he also purchased a few material houses ended up with a heck of a lot of crystals. They did come to the hobby school that teaches watch repair and lecture the students on crystals. So what did we find out well there's a heck of a lot of crystals that were made. Did you know there was a crystal of the month club for watchmakers? Basically each month they would get a crystal assortment. Probably the crystal assortments are you only use one or two out of each assortment of the rest of it just sits there.

Or GS crystals because the recognized you go to a nawcc regional meeting and somebody's trying to sell the crystal cabinets they want all this money because each crystals worth this much in a whole cabinet must be worthless. But once again like when you look at the catalog how many of those crystals to actually need. This means you see crystal assortments even on eBay where they're practically nothing because out of that hole assortments are going be lucky if you can find one crystal you're ever going to need.

This means in your case if you get a specialty crystal the chance of finding one is practically nonexistent but GS does say on the website they will make a custom crystal.

Then if you're really enthusiastic the SLA 3-D printers these are resin-based printers they do have some transparent resin . some of the resins I saw were translucent but they actually do have optical clear resins now which means for almost to the point or may be at the point where if you're creative you could conceivably print your own crystals.

 

This is great info, and news to me. I gathered that old time watchmakers had drawers on hand, so I guess it makes sense many large cabinets/lots are appearing. 

In any event, I'll reach out to GS tomorrow to get their take and will circle back to this Board for the groups benefits. Thanks all!

[LarryH]

I have 5000+ vintage B&B glass crystals, let me check my old catalogs tomorrow to see if I see anything that is close to that size.  I also have about 20 tower cabinets full of GS crystals (plastic).  I’ll take a look at those catalogs as well.

 

Have a great evening!

[Bauertime]

If you are going to work on watches as hobby. You need to search auction sites for "crystal lots" for cheap prices. After years of buying crystal lots I have ziploc bags of different shaped crystals, glass and plastic. I always have one that is close enough to the right size to sand into shape with a diamond stone.

[MikeRaleighNC]

9 hours ago, LarryH said:

I have 5000+ vintage B&B glass crystals, let me check my old catalogs tomorrow to see if I see anything that is close to that size.  I also have about 20 tower cabinets full of GS crystals (plastic).  I’ll take a look at those catalogs as well.

 

Have a great evening!

You're amazing. Look forward to hearing back.

9 hours ago, Bauertime said:

If you are going to work on watches as hobby. You need to search auction sites for "crystal lots" for cheap prices. After years of buying crystal lots I have ziploc bags of different shaped crystals, glass and plastic. I always have one that is close enough to the right size to sand into shape with a diamond stone.

I've thought about that, but 99% (99.9%?) seem to be small and unusual crystals, whereas most of my watches are 1960's/70's round watches needing 25mm to 33mm wedge-ledge or evrtite style crystals. To your point, I could probably track down a lot with enough of these to pay for the ones I'll never use. I appreciate the suggestion.

[MikeRaleighNC]

 

17 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

go to the third link that I gave that's the GS crystal company. Send them a message and tell them what you have and see if they have a crystal for you plus they will make a custom crystal it be interesting to find out how expensive it's going to be but since are in the crystal business maybe it wouldn't be that much.

Here's the problem with crystals? One of the local people for a while had a material house and he also purchased a few material houses ended up with a heck of a lot of crystals. They did come to the hobby school that teaches watch repair and lecture the students on crystals. So what did we find out well there's a heck of a lot of crystals that were made. Did you know there was a crystal of the month club for watchmakers? Basically each month they would get a crystal assortment. Probably the crystal assortments are you only use one or two out of each assortment of the rest of it just sits there.

Or GS crystals because the recognized you go to a nawcc regional meeting and somebody's trying to sell the crystal cabinets they want all this money because each crystals worth this much in a whole cabinet must be worthless. But once again like when you look at the catalog how many of those crystals to actually need. This means you see crystal assortments even on eBay where they're practically nothing because out of that hole assortments are going be lucky if you can find one crystal you're ever going to need.

This means in your case if you get a specialty crystal the chance of finding one is practically nonexistent but GS does say on the website they will make a custom crystal.

Then if you're really enthusiastic the SLA 3-D printers these are resin-based printers they do have some transparent resin . some of the resins I saw were translucent but they actually do have optical clear resins now which means for almost to the point or may be at the point where if you're creative you could conceivably print your own crystals.

 

Heard back from GS:

***

Hello Mike,

Please see page 28 from our 1952 crystal catalog, which includes crystals produced since the 1920s.

Perhaps Q 396 might fit your watch? Please look at all the options on this page to confirm your selection.

We do not stock these crystals.  They have to be formed and finished manually using vintage tools.  This is a time consuming process, so the cost is high:  $40.00 plus shipping for one crystal, all sales final.

***

See attached page she references. I was able to find one on ebay just now; will keep you posted as to how it works. I believe this one has a flag bottom, so there may not be sufficient clearance for the hands (even if the other dimensions fit).

1952 Crystal Catalog Page 28.pdf

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, MikeRaleighNC said:

This is a time consuming process, so the cost is high:  $40.00 plus shipping

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me.

[JohnR725]

41 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me.

yes I would agree getting a custom made crystal for $40 seems really really good price

 

[MikeRaleighNC]

30 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

yes I would agree getting a custom made crystal for $40 seems really really good price

 

 

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me.

Not sure how these are made, but it surprises me that they don't have the die/cast in the archives. I think $40 would be a reasonable price to do a 1-off production run. Mind blowing they would hand-craft one for $40...

Edited June 7, 2021 by MikeRaleighNC