Meaning of "Balance complete"

[LittleWatchShop]

What does it mean?

1) Does it mean balance wheel?

2) Does it mean balance wheel and hairspring?

3) Does it mean balance wheel, hairspring, and balance cock?

4) Does it mean balance wheel, hairspring, balance cock AND associated top jewel (e.g. incabloc jewel installed)?

I received a "balance complete" today that passed, 1,2,3 but failed #4.  Missing the incabloc jewel.

[jdrichard]

2 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

What does it mean?

1) Does it mean balance wheel?

2) Does it mean balance wheel and hairspring?

3) Does it mean balance wheel, hairspring, and balance cock?

4) Does it mean balance wheel, hairspring, balance cock AND associated top jewel (e.g. incabloc jewel installed)?

I received a "balance complete" today that passed, 1,2,3 but failed #4.  Missing the incabloc jewel.

You got ripped off. Getting a picture is the only way to sure

[LittleWatchShop]

6 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Getting a picture is the only way to sure

I have myself to blame partially.  There were multiple pictures.  Only one showing the top incabloc spring.  You have to zoom in to see that the jewel is missing.  But the description should have been enough.

So, what did I do?

First of all I took a bet that the Landeron 248 would substitute for the Landeron 51 (all derivatives of the Landeron 48 or some such).  So, I put the L51 balance cock on the L248 balance and spring.  Turns out that the L248 staff is about 100 microns longer. No bueno.  So I put the new hairspring (the part that was bad) on the old balance wheel attached to the old cock.

It is working.  Have not timed it.

[nickelsilver]

A balance complete is balance with hairspring and roller table. That's a balance complete.

[mikepilk]

It's 2 - balance wheel and hairspring with roller 

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

What does it mean?

Complete means all the parts associated with the balance wheel.  then typically it's not a DIY it all comes assembled. In other words the balance wheel, the balance staff, the roller table, the roller jewel and hairspring. In other words everything that normally is attached to the balance wheel. You do not get a complimentary balance bridge or the rest of the watch unless it says movement complete although usually it says movement they don't put the word complete.

 

9 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

First of all I took a bet that the Landeron 248 would substitute for the Landeron 51 (all derivatives of the Landeron 48 or some such).

This is where personally for me I like to look these things up I like to know exactly what I'm getting. But on a prior discussion with this group the group likes to? Basically they like to play darts with a blindfold on each time they throw they like the spin around and where it goes is where it goes. Which is why I'm not going give you any cross reference numbes because that would take away the fun. You can't have fun if you look up the part numbers it just takes a lot of time it's boring and tedious.

[LittleWatchShop]

I took these measurements to practice using this micrometer and work on my photography.  I have more work to do on the photography side I suppose.

The second picture measures the full length of the stem.  The other two capture the length of the arbor.

Edited February 14, 2021 by LittleWatchShop

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

This is where personally for me I like to look these things up I like to know exactly what I'm getting.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

OK.  Perhaps I am wrong about "balance complete."  I will move along.

The watch is keeping good time on the bench.

I have the case and pushers, but only the sweep second hand.  I found a minute hand that was close enough so that I could monitor how well it is keeping time, but I need a real set of hands and a decision about the dial.

These chronographs were branded by lots of different companies. I see dials on Ebay and as best I can tell the feet are correct.  I don't want to sink a lot of money into it because this chronograph is not so popular.

Hey...its a project!!

[JohnR725]

I like your pictures and you're right the 51 and the 248 interchange exactly except? It appears to be that there were variations and because there are variations there are minimum of three different balance wheels that all interchange but not necessarily amongst themselves?

The loss of forgot to include something so I'm attaching another image notice something under remarks this watch was made for how many years? Between 1937 in 1970 that means that it was upgraded. Notice how in the technical description it says of all the parts interchange but notice in the spare parts list that there are three different balance wheels. So that means that a real life there probably is an interchangeability issue where conceivably everything does not interchange 100%.

Oh and the other problem with interchangeability is if somebody is played with a watch before you perhaps they modified or change something so then you have to fix whatever they modified unchanged perhaps

always interesting when cross-referencing parts to check multiple of sources. Like bestfit online I snipped out images for you.  so it appears to be there are limited number of balance completes but how many separate numbers do we have for balance staffs?. If I was really enthusiastic I go in the bestfit book which everybody should have any way if you doing  modern watches and you can look up the staff numbers and see why there is differences between all of them. But it is troubling that there appear to be more staff numbers and balance complete numbers?

 

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=LAN_51

[LittleWatchShop]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

If I was really enthusiastic

Thanks John, I appreciate more and more what my Dad went through to send me to college.

Oh...when in subjunctive mood, use "were" instead of "was." 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Oh...when in subjunctive mood, use "were" instead of "was." 

You need to improve your reading skills you not paying attention those mistakes were super minor what about the other ones that I make? Did you know you've never seen anything that I've typed? Everything is C is a product of dictation software and did you just noticed the C? Normally at have to correct that by hand typing it I did say everything you see and look what I got oh dear. Without dictation software I would never be on this group but it can be a pain in the ass. I'm going to assume the above mistake was my mistake but it does really strange things at times. On the other hand it set me free to answer questions and occasionally torture people on this group.

Then I'm not going to correct anything up above normal a? Okay I made one minor correction to this line. Like the word your up above it has you? Or the word normally as the letter a following it I don't recall saying that. Dictation software sucks but

[Michael1962]

Ok. I give in. I have no idea what that post is about. 

[oldhippy]

A balance complete consists of balance wheel, hairspring, roller and balance staff all complete and ready to fit to the balance cock. Allways clean first. 

[JohnR725]

12 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Ok. I give in. I have no idea what that post is about. 

Which one does not make any sense?

[Klassiker]

7 minutes ago, Michael1962 said:

Ok. I give in. I have no idea what that post is about.

It seems clear enough to me. John has difficulty typing. He uses dictation software, which isn't 100% reliable. The content of his posts is high-quality, if you take the trouble to re-read them (out loud If necessary). You might want to try again.

[Michael1962]

I understand that John uses dictation software. I have reread the post above mine several times. If it makes sense to everyone else, that’s great. I was not having a go at John, I am just not sure of everything in the post. Not an issue though. 

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

You need to improve your reading skills you not paying attention those mistakes were super minor what about the other ones that I make? Did you know you've never seen anything that I've typed? Everything is C is a product of dictation software and did you just noticed the C? Normally at have to correct that by hand typing it I did say everything you see and look what I got oh dear. Without dictation software I would never be on this group but it can be a pain in the ass. I'm going to assume the above mistake was my mistake but it does really strange things at times. On the other hand it set me free to answer questions and occasionally torture people on this group.

Then I'm not going to correct anything up above normal a? Okay I made one minor correction to this line. Like the word your up above it has you? Or the word normally as the letter a following it I don't recall saying that. Dictation software sucks but

Just have a little fun with you John, because I knew you could take it!