Identifying clock

[oldhippy]

The very old early 400 day clocks never had adjustable feet, with disk type pendulums you couldn’t have a built in cup as a guide, the same goes for the early ball types as well.

[Michael1962]

When you say 400 days, I presume that is how long the clock would run before requiring rewinding?

How did they manage that?

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael  the name is derived from the fact that the almost friction free escapement and the slow rate coupled with a strong spring they would run for approx 400days  or also known as Anniversary clocks as they were wound once a year on their anniversary.  I have six of these and two quartz driven ones, They are interesting to work on but require patience as they are very touchy and must be level

[watchweasol]

Hi Old Hippy had the pleasure of doing one like that a Gustav Becker beautiful clock.

[oldhippy]

They had to be re-named to anniversary clocks due to the trades description act because if the clock went for 401 or only 399 days it could not be called a 400 day clock,  when the horrid quartz came in well it all went out the window because they don’t need winding up at all.   

[MechanicMike]

10 hours ago, clockboy said:

Perhaps I have been lucky I was just not aware of that. I have not had that issue but have had issues where even after fitting the correct spring it has proved to be too strong and I have had to thin the spring. In my experience with the 400 day clocks everything has to be spot on or it stalls after a day or two. 

I bet this one will be one of those clocks. 

[MechanicMike]

13 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Mike the best type of level is the ones used for leveling caravans which levels in two directions , front/back and side to side , There apps for the iphone which also double as levels  and are accurate I use both  double checking the clock and the bench plate..

I got a couple of them. A bullseye and small torpedo level. Explain caravans?

[MechanicMike]

7 hours ago, watchweasol said:

They are interesting to work on but require patience as they are very touchy and must be level

And a huge challenge to us noobs! I'm going to get this if it's the last thing I do lol!

[MechanicMike]

12 hours ago, watchweasol said:

I find it a bit strange that the clock has no leveling feet, as I have six of these clocks all of which have screw adjustable feet. These clocks rely on being perfectly level to work and the feet give you that adjustment.  I have never had to alter the length of the springs either All from Horolovar.  I would check the underside of the base for the feet they may just be screwed right up into the base and not be apparent.

Hi Weasol- this one doesn't have, or didn't have any feet when I got it. Just the base, and then the two columns bolted to it. I'll post a pic when I get a chance tomorrow. Otherwise I'm going to level it and put power to ms and see if I can time and reg it. 

[oldhippy]

To be fair, you have picked one of the most difficult types of clocks to repair. In my time back in the 70's and 80's I new a few clockmakers who wouldn't touch the things. If you have been repairing clocks as long as I had it is quite common to have them in the workshop with no adjustable feet as I have explained above in one of my comments.  

[Willow]

4 hours ago, MechanicMike said:

I got a couple of them. A bullseye and small torpedo level. Explain caravans?

caravans if am right i think you call them trailers were people tow them and go on holiday (vacation) they are also static

[watchweasol]

Hi Mike   yep  caravans in the UK  =   Trailers in the US,  The level is triangular in shape with two levels   I have anclosed a picture for you.

[MechanicMike]

5 hours ago, oldhippy said:

To be fair, you have picked one of the most difficult types of clocks to repair. In my time back in the 70's and 80's I new a few clockmakers who wouldn't touch the things. If you have been repairing clocks as long as I had it is quite common to have them in the workshop with no adjustable feet as I have explained above in one of my comments.  

Yep I definitely read that. I remember when this arrived and with what little I knew I thought the feet were missing, until I got the book and began learning. I  was going to buy some only to find out these didn't have any. The weekend is almost here so I'll be getting after it after work. Sometimes, finding time is the problem. 

[MechanicMike]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Mike   yep  caravans in the UK  =   Trailers in the US,  The level is triangular in shape with two levels   I have anclosed a picture for you.

That's kind of what I thought lol. But yes, I have levels almost like that, ready. Starting tonight I'll be leveling the carav... er I mean clock and I'll keep you posted unless you guys are getting bored with this one. I feel with y'alls help I'm soooo close! 

[watchweasol]

Never bored , interested anticipating the results.  good luck

[MechanicMike]

Well, I wound it up and let it run. Checked on it this morning, and it had stopped. Looking into it later today for what it could be.

[watchweasol]

Hi Mike   Its usually it is slightly out of beat or not quite level but believe me they take some setting up I have spent days at it..  I have a big Haller that I bought couple of days cleaning etc and a week and a half setting it up, some one had moved the pallet stones they were in plastic  friction mounts.  tried my patience

[MechanicMike]

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Mike   Its usually it is slightly out of beat or not quite level but believe me they take some setting up I have spent days at it..  I have a big Haller that I bought couple of days cleaning etc and a week and a half setting it up, some one had moved the pallet stones they were in plastic  friction mounts.  tried my patience

Holee ...well I'm not too upset about it...yet. we'll see what I can find when I get back.  And does the escapement move that sloooooow? Wow not even used to that!

[watchweasol]

I am afraid they do work that slow, I think that's why people dont like them they are time consuming but worth it when its running     all the best

[MechanicMike]

You poor blokes are in for the long haul of Mike trying to get this 400 day running! Ugh upon further inspection, the fork tines were definitely too tight around the anchor pin. It looks like they were bent on delivery. Just took a beater screwdriver and gave it a very slight tweak and presto- the escapement began to tic tock normally. I think that's where I was loosing everything. Right at the fork. Now, for the timing and regulation. Just by watching the pendulum swing it is out of beat and all but not terribly bad. I'm going to let it run awhile see where it lands. Oh and I also checked and re-leveled the "caravan" lol I love slight language differences ha all others reading this or doing Anniversary clocks when someone mentions "has to be level" they are NOT kidding. At all.

So when I get this thing running, am I going to have to set this thing up again and level at the owner's house or what? 

[Michael1962]

Hi guys.

@oldhippy might be the best to answer this but I presume others may know.

On the plans for the winder, there is a recess shown on one side of the clamp plates, Part H's. How deep should this be? As I have never seen a barrelled main spring on a clock, I don't know how deep to make this recess?

The other thing I have been thinking about is whether this winder can be used to let down a captured main spring that is held by a C clamp and not in a barrel?

Edited February 18, 2021 by Michael1962

[watchweasol]

Hi Mike  the distance between the forks is critical for operation too much and you loose travel too little and it binds, if you can slide a piece of paper between the fork and the impulse pin you are close and a smear of oil helps smooth delivery.

Regards the winder you can use it to release springs held in a "C" clamp using the appropriate holder to hold the loop but I find its best to wear a glove and control the release of the spring after the clamp is removed and conversly when rewinding to fit the clamp prior to fitting it in the movement.  Can you post a picture of the bit you mean regarding the "groove" , I copied the plans but cant remember where they are at the moment ( Old age)      cheers

[watchweasol]

Hello Michael   apologies for the use of Mike I know you prefer Michael  sorry. the answer to your query was combined with that of MechanicMike.

[oldhippy]

6 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

Hi guys.

@oldhippy might be the best to answer this but I presume others may know.

On the plans for the winder, there is a recess shown on one side of the clamp plates, Part H's. How deep should this be? As I have never seen a barrelled main spring on a clock, I don't know how deep to make this recess?

The other thing I have been thinking about is whether this winder can be used to let down a captured main spring that is held by a C clamp and not in a barrel?

What is it you need help with? 

[Michael1962]

How deep should the recess on the clamp parts be? The recess is for the geared flange on the mainspring barrels.

Winder drawing

 And apologies for the topic derail. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Michael1962