Incabloc Shock Spring fitting.

[Seth]

Hi there I hope you are all keeping safe and well,I finally got a pack of replacement Incabloc Shock Spring's for my FEF310 movement but can anyone help me with how do I fit a spring.I have spent hours looking for springs on the bench,floor etc and finally found all of them!!! So having gathered my patience and nerves back I'm ready to attempt to fit a spring to the bottom balance jewel housing if anyone can help me with any suggestions on how to fit them.Any help would be gratefully received,Regards and keep safe,Seth.

[watchweasol]

Hi  I believe  Mark did a video in which he shows how to remove and re-fit shock springs, Probably best to watch it as it is easier to watch it being done than describe the actions needed.

[Nucejoe]

The regulator arm covers the groove through which spring is to slide in the housing, so take the spring out to see the grove.

The housing is screwed in plase on mainplate side however, unscrew, take the housing out, insert the spring, loc it in , put back and screw back on.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Nucejoe
so take regul arm off

[Nucejoe]

Correction,  On the cock side,     take the regulator arm off.  not the spring .   

You would need to remove the balance complete to to take the regul arm off.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Nucejoe
PM sent

[Nucejoe]

In some housing you can insert the spring without removing the housing.

[JohnR725]

so pictures are always helpful wewill use the pictures below. Dial side the setting is held in with the screw so you have to take the setting out. Balance bridge side typically it's held in by one of two methods. If you're lucky it's held it with a little clip it just slides out the entire setting comes out remember how to put all the bits and pieces back together. Specifically the regulator  will come out at the same time. Worst-case there is no clip and you have to push it out with tools like found at the second link.

then if this was a Chinese clone you wouldn't need to take the setting apart because they shortchanged on manufacturing steps. but on the Swiss version only on rare occasions have I found that you could put the spring back in without taking the setting apart.

.http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&FEF_310

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/pieces_rechanges.php

[Nucejoe]

34 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

so pictures are always helpful wewill use the pictures below. Dial side the setting is held in with the screw so you have to take the setting out. Balance bridge side typically it's held in by one of two methods. If you're lucky it's held it with a little clip it just slides out the entire setting comes out remember how to put all the bits and pieces back together. Specifically the regulator  will come out at the same time. Worst-case there is no clip and you have to push it out with tools like found at the second link.

then if this was a Chinese clone you wouldn't need to take the setting apart because they shortchanged on manufacturing steps. but on the Swiss version only on rare occasions have I found that you could put the spring back in without taking the setting apart.

.http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&FEF_310

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/pieces_rechanges.php

Sometimes it is near impossible to communicate without the picture.

Spring on the dial side is broken. I think inserting the spring in, is giving a hard time.

[Seth]

Hi there I have taken some photos of the movement and parts that I am trying to reassemble as you will see the jewel housing and new springs alongside the broken spring are safe for the moment in a plastic box.The movement shown is a FEF310 vintage.Regards,Seth.

[Nucejoe]

Open the second link john provided, it should show the housing and the whole assembly. 

I can access the pics you posted.   

Remove the housing to the jewel assembly. just unscrew and push it out.

insert the spring in the groove, sometimes the groove lets you hinge the spring over to lock it in. Do not force the spring in.

[Nucejoe]

Ok it opened.  Dirty housing. clean pleèease. 

So what is giving you problem?

[watchweasol]

Hi  The video attached shows how to fit several differnt types of spring   hope it helps     cheers

 

[Seth]

Hi there to all who have replied to my plea for help.Well I have finally managed to get this Incabloc Shock Spring replacement fitted after a lot of cussing and swearing I had to revert to my little Amazon cheapo digital microscope why on earth I didn't think of this earlier.It's now back together and I will see if it is going to work.Photo enclosed.Regards to you all and keep safe,Seth.

[spectre6000]

5 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

The housing is screwed in plase on mainplate side however, unscrew, take the housing out, insert the spring, loc it in , put back and screw back on.

Woah woah woah... I know there are settings in plates with little offset screws, and maybe that's what you're talking about. I thought we were talking about the fairly modern Incabloc (or more likely Chinese clone Incabloc since the spring is out). Are you saying those settings are threaded and screwed in rather than pressed in? They have a slot for certain, though I only ever thought of the slot as being for the springs themselves. It's certainly not hard to imagine it serving double duty to screw the setting into the plate/cock/bridge though... I thought they were pressed in, but never actually rubbed any brain cells together in that direction... Am I interpreting you correctly? That would certainly make life in a universe with crappy Chinese copies more bearable!

[Nucejoe]

15 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Woah woah woah... I know there are settings in plates with little offset screws, and maybe that's what you're talking about. I thought we were talking about the fairly modern Incabloc (or more likely Chinese clone Incabloc since the spring is out). Are you saying those settings are threaded and screwed in rather than pressed in? They have a slot for certain, though I only ever thought of the slot as being for the springs themselves. It's certainly not hard to imagine it serving double duty to screw the setting into the plate/cock/bridge though... I thought they were pressed in, but never actually rubbed any brain cells together in that direction... Am I interpreting you correctly? That would certainly make life in a universe with crappy Chinese copies more           

 

You would know the best answer as soon as you press one such housing home, it is not a tight fit,  is not relied on for keeping the housing put in axial direction but only in lateral, tight enough to keep the jewel hole in correct lateral position for pivot   therefor the staff, what keep the housing where put is the screw.  I hope I making sense.

[spectre6000]

Bummer. Well, not really. As nice as it would be to have such an easy remedy available, the real lesson is don't waste time on crappy movements. It had been in the drawer for a decade or so having never been worn (it looked as cheap as I'm sure it was) with no further recollection of its provenance, so to my mind that's a $0 lesson.

[Nucejoe]

14 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Bummer. Well, not really. As nice as it would be to have such an easy remedy available, the real lesson is don't waste time on crappy movements. It had been in the drawer for a decade or so having never been worn (it looked as cheap as I'm sure it was) with no further recollection of its provenance, so to my mind that's a $0 lesson.

True, I am afraid cheap chinees or even some  Russian makes, kind of give the wrong feeling of the fineness of parts. I always recommend Mumbay special ST96 to newbies, cheap but not crappy.

[JohnR725]

46 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Woah woah woah... I know there are settings in plates with little offset screws, and maybe that's what you're talking about. I thought we were talking about the fairly modern Incabloc (or more likely Chinese clone Incabloc since the spring is out). Are you saying those settings are threaded and screwed in rather than pressed in? They have a slot for certain, though I only ever thought of the slot as being for the springs themselves. It's certainly not hard to imagine it serving double duty to screw the setting into the plate/cock/bridge though... I thought they were pressed in, but never actually rubbed any brain cells together in that direction... Am I interpreting you correctly? That would certainly make life in a universe with crappy Chinese copies more bearable!

first off a minor problem this is watch repair everything is possible may be?

not finding examples I want but will use this. It shows things in a way you normally wouldn't see it like the hole jewel is out of the setting it's normally in. notice there's a reference to the machining and that the spring stays in place because the hinging action? Then because it does stay in place the only way it can be replaced is by taking the setting out and they call let setting the end piece. so the end piece that holds everything together is either pressed in meeting the tools that are shown in the link up above someplace. Occasionally held it with a little screw or a U-shaped metal clip. I don't think I've ever seen the clip on the lower setting I think it's just the upper part. That's usually because the lower it needs to be much thinner in the upper has all the regulations stuff so it can be thicker.

Then as I mentioned before the Chinese change the machining just a little bit and the part that allows the spring the hinge is missing. Normally they become like a backstop if that makes any sense so when you open it up the spring hinges on the Chinese there is no backstop it just slides back and falls out. On the other hand putting it back in his easy just putting angle rotate it back straight and then put the tabs in easy.

to understand things a little better the second link shows a picture you can almost use your imagination of what holds the spring in but go to the third link for that. Notice on the right-hand side?you see that little lip protruding down I probably should steal the image and highlight that but that is what's missing on the Chinese watches. So in the entire setting is in the watch that's what keeps the spring from falling out typically. But the Chinese it was easier to manufacture and not include that that's why the spring falls out.

http://www.tztoolshop.com/page95.html

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/systeme_incabloc.php

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/points_forts.php

This link is hard to find on the website spare parts but notice while the screws are off on the right-hand side along with the U-shaped clips the actual outer setting is not considered a spare part?

http://www.incabloc.ch/images/cat/tableau-synoptique.gif

then isn't this weird this subjects been covered before

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/7631-re-seating-an-incabloc-spring/

[JohnR725]

44 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

real lesson is don't waste time on crappy movements.

the amusing aspect of your observation is that a lot of people on this discussion group are repairing Timex watches and pin lever watches. Which crappy might not be quite the right word sheep and they really weren't entirely meant to be repaired. Not that discussions aren't going on on how to repair them but it is see a lot of frustrations because they may have service manuals and screws that come out but they're cheap they weren't really meant to be serviced.

The other problem of course comes up is not just crappy watches but watches that are worn out. They may still be nice 17 jewel Swiss movements but they will wear out with time.

This is why you usually recommend people start off with the Chinese pocket watch movements. Just practice taking it apart and putting them back together don't touch the Springs for the shock system and don't touch the mainspring. Then when you put it back together if you're careful it runs there's a certain tree a satisfaction. If you put it on the timing machine providing you have one in see that it are lucky it still running more or less the way it was when he took apart once again you get that degree a satisfaction. As opposed to working on watches that are not going to say they can't be fixed but they're going to be a challenge and then you may move on. Or just give up altogether because watches don't want to be fixed.

[spectre6000]

At the risk of further threadjacking...

With the particular movement in question, I decided it's just screws and jewels going forward; spares are its highest and best use scenario. I broke one of the springs, and the other is currently touring the ether; maybe it'll reappear in this plane of existence, maybe not. It's not worth ordering a replacement part unless I need to pad some shipping. I'm still not completely sure how they fell out, because it was literally just gravity as I flipped the movement over, but the geometry required to get them back in is not at all apparent. 

Cheap isn't always crappy, and crappy isn't always cheap. VW Beetles were cheap, but not at all crappy; Maserati Biturbos weren't cheap, but were complete turds. I was actually musing this morning that the Russian movements may be the VW Beetles of the watch world: cheap and plentiful, disrespected but respectable, etc. I'll have to see how I feel about my kill rate once I get through my existing project lineup, but I may be after a few Sekondas before I dive into Omegas.

[canthus]

Ah, lost springs, its 'ether' gone forever or may reappear when least expected. 

Just found a kif spring on my floor.  Lost at least 9 months ago and the floor has been swept, tacky wiped, and examined with magnifying glasses since (looking for other lost parts) !!!!   Can only assume it was stuck to the bottom of one of my storage boxes when I was looking for something else and it fell off.

 

[spectre6000]

I've said it elsewhere on this forum before, but I recently spent a good long while spring hunting, only to give up. Then I immediately found it stuck to the inside of the lens of my glasses.

[rossjackson01]

I'm in the same boat.

My incabloc spring came lose when in the ultrasonic. I may be attempting the refit wrong. If I hold the spring upright with the straight bar horizontal at the bottom.  is the straight bar to go under the housing from the outside edge and be moved in? Do I place the spring flat on the gaps and try to push it under from the centre?

4th day now

Regards

Ross

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:27 PM, spectre6000 said:

I've said it elsewhere on this forum before, but I recently spent a good long while spring hunting, only to give up. Then I immediately found it stuck to the inside of the lens of my glasses.

I found a dia shock clinging on to my jogging pants, after id been downstairs for a pee and made myself a cuppa haha

8 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

I'm in the same boat.

My incabloc spring came lose when in the ultrasonic. I may be attempting the refit wrong. If I hold the spring upright with the straight bar horizontal at the bottom.  is the straight bar to go under the housing from the outside edge and be moved in? Do I place the spring flat on the gaps and try to push it under from the centre?

4th day now

Regards

Ross

Can you post a picture ross, just a bit easier to undetstand and then explain what to do mate.

[clockboy]

Shock springs either lost or broken are a regular topic on the forum. I used to clean watch parts in a ultrasonic cleaner and never lost a spring so as a guess it must have been loose or not under tension. Rule of thumb when fitting absolutely make sure the spring and the tweezers are de magnetised. If attempting for the first time put some cling film over it while manipulating. It’s awkward but trust me the springs have life of their own.  The easiest style of spring to deal will is the trior. I shaped a piece of pegwood to work with them. 

Edited Saturday at 07:36 AM by clockboy

[RichardHarris123]

I have a theory about transient micro worm holes. They pop in and out of existence, items disappear, items reappear. I'll win a Nobel prize when proved correct. 

[rossjackson01]

As Requested. These are the most that I can expand the camera view, 10x. I have place the spring on top and tried to side the bar into the gap. No joy. Do I need to place the bar down into the outside surround and attempt to slide it under? If so, can can anyone tell me which side. Outer of base, or inner?

Regards

Ross