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Weird old watch , unmarked movement and odd maker

Chriswatches

By Chriswatches
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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Chriswatches New Member

Chriswatches

Posted
Posted

This watch is gold filled or solid gold I believe .   

No hallmarks ,  inside the case reads derby m.w.c. Co  case made in Canada .  The face reads a.c. Brown.   I am wondering what type of watch this is ? The movement gives me no clues . Thanks so much in advance for your time 

687470CE-D8A8-493F-8CC9-3CA51855DB58.jpeg

71E39EB9-146B-4DEB-8C25-7405E5A6F7C6.png

51BD21D8-C647-4DD7-992D-E6D10EB201B7.jpeg

B014912E-277E-4FBD-B176-CE2E0AFB5A60.jpeg

27E3A33C-7A11-4891-A03C-326A1D1C699B.png

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

We should be able to ID that movement by the keyless work. Could you remove the hands and dial and take a good clear photo of the whole bottom plate. The name on the dial, I expect that is the retailer’s name from which it was bought.

Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted

Hi all,   How do we go about identifying by the keyless, Do we search for exact look of shape? Take the keyless parts dimentions into account? Would you expand on details please.

Regards joe

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

Members on here have reference books, which show the keyless works of thousands of movements. Experience can also play a big part. Bestfit watch parts ref book is one of the better books for this, there are many different types, some for American, Russian Swiss just to name a few. So we only need the photo.

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HSL Distinguished Member

HSL

Posted
Posted (edited)

I would say sometimes just memory plays a huge part in looking for the right direction to go, like in this case one could supposer the size is at most 10.5", the train bridge often also gives a clue. In this case it has a typical look of an AS style bridge often used in movements like AS 951.
The keyless part is what can differ between manufacturers using the exact same base as this movement, Bifora is an brilliant example if this.
And in this case you can see a mark of the watchmaker B.S  probably Schürch, Bohnenblust & Co.
Now with these clues one could take the big book and explore for the correct movement.

Edited by HSL
noirrac1j Distinguished Member

noirrac1j

Posted
Posted

 

M.W.C. Co is Montreal Watch Case Co, and the movement is the AS 951 as @oldhippy has noted. This "Weird Old Watch"  is unusual for a ladies watch in that it has the sub seconds. Most ladies watches of that era don't that.

 

J

Chriswatches New Member

Chriswatches

Posted
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Is this movement expensive to repair ? It stops and starts and I don’t know too much about this particular movement or what watches I could find the same movement in for possible parts swap . Thanks again guys you are amazing !!

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

Many watch repairs do not like repairing old watches and they will refuse to undertake the work. I retired many years ago from watch/ clock making. I’m out of touch with costs. I am sure members will be able to help you about cost.  

HSL Distinguished Member

HSL

Posted
Posted

If it is expensive to repair is always a tough question to answer. If you plan on service it your self and you already have some tools and lubrication I would say No this type is as cheap as they come. This movement has been around for a long time and parts is available in masses, a quick look in the thick books reveals the different movements  you could harvest parts from like the following AS models 302, 303, 311, 313, 323, 324, 328, 329, 333, 340, 342, 344, 361, 362, 365, 371, 383, 396, 473, 546, 549, 569, 585, 595, 603, 621, 629, 636, 694, 709, 714, 717, 720, 731, 775, 790, 803, 825, 915, 951.
From these I would think the AS 340 was the most popular, in the e-bay you should get some hits.

But if you plan on leaving it to a professional one soon realize why there are so many movements for sale, especially if the case were of gold they end up there. A real shame if you ask me. 

If you are interested in learning watch repair  this movement is a charm to work with since it has a separate escapement bridge.
The design allows you to learn how to assemble the drive train in an very good fashion without breaking the fragile pivot on the escapement wheel.

And since you describe it like it runs for a while before stopping you might be in luck and  it's just dry of oil and dirty.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chriswatches said:

Is this movement expensive to repair ? It stops and starts and I don’t know too much about this particular movement or what watches I could find the same movement in for possible parts swap . Thanks again guys you are amazing !!

I suggest finding it's value, appraised , ladies watches generally don,t fetch much.

More data on its behaviour helps guessing the fault,  

StuartBaker104 Distinguished Member

StuartBaker104

Posted
Posted

I have bought a few 9ct gold 1950s / 1960s hallmarked ladies watches from eBay over recent years for between £30 and £50. Essentially this is probably about the value of the gold in the case. Usually this has been for runners which need a service.

A professional service is probably going to cost you £100 minimum. The bare minimum oils and tools do do it yourself are probably going to cost at least this, but you will learn something along the way if you’ve never done this before.

When finished this watch will be worth whatever you'd be prepared to pay for it... £60, £70? I doubt it’s solid gold if it doesn’t have some sort of mark, but you never know.

 

 

wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

Posted
Posted

Ladies watches have to be a good maker or brand to be worth anything other than their gold content if they have any, there are many collectors of mens watches but very few collectors of ladies watches, anything you spend on this watch you will not get back when it comes to resale. A large number of ladies watches with gold cases unless they are the more sought after makes are simply scrapped for gold content this I have done myself in the past, I had a 1960's ladies 9ct Omega bracelet watch a few years back when gold was high the scrap value was about £350.00 I would not have realised a penny more by trying to sell it privately the style was dated and it was just too small regardless of maker for today's market.

When I scrapped the watch I had a conversation with the Jeweller I sold the watch to along the lines of it seems a shame to scrap such a good watch upon which he fetched a shoe box from the back of the shop full of ladies watch movements and told me that was a few months worth from scrapped watches there must have been 200 to 300 such movements in the box when gold prices are high there is very little sentimentality about for old gold ladies watches.

The watch you have is commonly know as a cocktail watch a small sized ladies watch on a thin strap or band popular from  the 1910's to 1950's.

If you have someone in mind to give it to as a gift then have a go yourself if you wish to try watch repair as a hobby.

You would need to positively identify the movement by removing the dial and having a look at the movement underneath its the only way to correctly identify it there are so many movements from this period that look a like you will also need the diameter of the movement.

 

 

  • 3 months later...
Dpastl Watch Enthusiast

Dpastl

Posted
Posted (edited)

@Chriswatches, this looks a lot like my PAL watch, which has an AS341 movement in it (same series as @HSL) mentioned.  They're marked under the dial if you're willing to remove it. 

Here's my dial:

PAL Dial.JPG

 

The AS341 movement looks like this:

image.png.447603da3efcc018c5408f1b1689def8.png

Hope that helps

Edited by Dpastl
Added more info
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