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Beginner: Messed up hair spring

p2n

By p2n
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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Deggsie WRT Addict

Deggsie

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On 14/03/2018 at 8:12 AM, p2n said:

No, it's totally buggered. But it's marginally less buggered than when i started on it. :P I'm not risking trying this on the mechanism that has some chance of working again! Will practice on scrappers until I'm comfortable trying it on the other one.

Good idea.   When I started out, I did exactly that.  If you learn nothing else, you'll discover just how fine you need your tweezers / pin and just how unforgiving hairsping steel is to fatigue (over bending one way and then back again)

 

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dadistic Distinguished Member

dadistic

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13 hours ago, Deggsie said:

This is a good point, but I always now reset using first principles (beat), i.e. roller on centre line between banking pins when the balance wheel is at rest..   This is for 2 main reasons.  Firstly, the watch may not have originally been set very well.  And secondly, after you have adjusted the hairspring geometry, it is very likely to have changed the beat anyway.   Just my personal view.  Regards

Deggsie

Now that's going to be truly tedious :biggrin: 

But worth it if you're trying to get a watch running as well as possible.

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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13 hours ago, Deggsie said:

Has anyone ever tried to make their own hairsping?  and with what success.   I'd love to get into a discussion on the tools, materials and techniques for making one at home.

I have got a book somewhere that shows how to manufacture a hairspring from scratch ( I think it could be one of de carles ) i will try and dig it out and give you the title. I think its a very involved process I do remember they have to be baked in an oxygen free oven and polished then tempered and blued.

Some very great watchmakers have tried to make their own and failed.

 

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Deggsie WRT Addict

Deggsie

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Hi Dadistic.  Actually, it's not too tedious.   I have a penchant for old English watches..... yup, junk I know but I love their character.  Take the Louis Newmark watches for example (Croydon), these are getting pretty rare to find with a good hairspring so you need to take TLC over the best spring you can find and put it into as near true shape as possible.  Now after all this faffing around it is unlikely that the stud will be in its original location with respect to the hub and so banking adjustment is nearly always required. 

What cannot easily be rectified is the vibration rate.   As these watches are old I suspect the springs may have been replaced with incorrect ones, or fitted with a springs from a similar watch that has a different mass/diameter balance.  It's all a matter of compromise when this happens.  The watch runs, but maybe too slow or too fast :(

Deggsie

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p2n WRT Addict

p2n

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There isn't an emoticon for "Running round the room waving hands and shouting woo hoo"... but if there were imagine it was here.

:)

P3220002.thumb.JPG.11eb3bdf3eba54d1d30d8f9aa23d0de6.JPG

 

Ok - I'm not quite as good as it looks lol. The spring wasn't damaged, only tangled. So a little straightening of the final curve and then untangling it as it popped back into shape. The final curve still needs a little work but it's almost there.

Still - I'm chuffed. Now got to get it all back together without buggering it up. ...

 

P.s. do you like my balance tack? Cost: 1p

P3220001.thumb.JPG.79c7943b888e5f84a6c59a9c310121a9.JPG

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Siro Member

Siro

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Hair springs be patiant I myself remove the anchor pin with an old pair of tweezers assertane which way it comes out by finding the thin end it's tapered place one leg of the tweezers behind the block the other leg on the THIN end of the pin and squeeze progrsessely the pin will just drop out cover with a piece of polythene if you want. When your makeing the coils something like beware of loops (a coil that has got over another coil )  try not to any more bends in it than there allready is go slowly. Now have a look at the plane ( side view) take the worst of the twists out. Starting from just beyond the sharp bend start takeing the bends out and some times putting some in ....  Good luck Mark Lovick dose a marvelous video on the subject on utube watch it before you start it'll give you confidence all the best.  

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Siro Member

Siro

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On 16 March 2018 at 3:42 PM, wls1971 said:

I have got a book somewhere that shows how to manufacture a hairspring from scratch ( I think it could be one of de carles ) i will try and dig it out and give you the title. I think its a very involved process I do remember they have to be baked in an oxygen free oven and polished then tempered and blued.

Some very great watchmakers have tried to make their own and failed.

 

I read somware years ago that they make balance springs three at a time. They put three peices of the spring metal in a three jaw collet chuck that has side supports the metal runs through friction jaws then the chuck turns the set number of times the feed metal is cut. The springs are removed from the chuck the nature of the metal causes the springs to take up the desiered shape with the desiered spaces between the coils. 

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StuartBaker104 Distinguished Member

StuartBaker104

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On 16/03/2018 at 2:42 PM, wls1971 said:

I have got a book somewhere that shows how to manufacture a hairspring from scratch ( I think it could be one of de carles ) i will try and dig it out and give you the title. I think its a very involved process I do remember they have to be baked in an oxygen free oven and polished then tempered and blued.

Some very great watchmakers have tried to make their own and failed.

 

Google is your friend... https://monochrome-watches.com/technical-perspective-manufacturing-process-hairsprings-explained-with-videos-e2o-innovations/

Anyone fancy a go?

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p2n WRT Addict

p2n

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lol. Wondering if I should have taken up fixing clocks - the bits are bigger and easier to see!

 

As for as this particular watch goes - I got the hairspring sorted only to bugger the balance staff. I've 4 movements now that need balance staff work but that's still a little beyond my skill level so I've had to park them until I'm ready.

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wls1971 Distinguished Member

wls1971

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33 minutes ago, StuartBaker104 said:

Google is your friend... https://monochrome-watches.com/technical-perspective-manufacturing-process-hairsprings-explained-with-videos-e2o-innovations/

Anyone fancy a go?

I knew I had a description of the process it is not a De Carle book its W.J.Gazeleys book "Watch and clock Making and Repairing" that gives a detailed description of making a hairspring from scratch it even gives details of how to manufacture tools to allow you to do so.

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transporter Super WRT Addict

transporter

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P2n well done mate, as for balance staffs you'll need a staking set and to watch a few of marks videos and they will show you everything you need to know, also I see your dial has many hairline cracks that are visible, my technique for making these disappear is to use denture tablets, yep drop the dial in a glass with a steradent tablet and after a few minutes the cracks will be nearly invisible. Be aware though ttat you only use this method if the numerals etc are under laquer and not painted on top.

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