Asbestos

[Marc]

I have started this as a new thread as it was taking the original way off topic and I did want to comment; health issues are never unimportant.The original thread that inspired this post is here;

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/903-elma-master-watch-cleaning-machine-wiring-diagramuser-manual/?page=12

There seems to be a lot of difference of opinion regarding the relative risks associated with exposure to asbestos, and as someone who has a small degree of experience in respect to this subject I thought I would put my point of view, although it is not my intention to challenge anyone elses opinion or to claim any particular expertise.

For my day job I am a Senior Consultant specialising in waste management for a large environmental consultancy and one of the areas in which we operate, and in which I have had some involvement, is asbestos surveying and remediation management. As a result of the inevitable potential exposure to asbestos that this work implicitly involves the company policy has always been "it takes just one fibre to kill". This is hardly surprising since Health & Safety regulations will hold the Company responsible for any ill effect that can be shown to have been caused by exposure to asbestos in the line of duty unless the Company can demonstrate that it has taken all possible precautions to protect its work force, with the inevitable ensuing litigation. By adopting the "no safe level of exposure" philosiphy the Company is hoping to establish a culture of fear of the stuff that is more designed to keep it out of the courts than it is based on any scientific research (or is that just my cynisism?). However, I don't think that there is anybody out there who would deny that the is a link between exposure to asbestos and a variety of respiratory conditions, some of which can be fatal.

There is a discussion here;

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/903-elma-master-watch-cleaning-machine-wiring-diagramuser-manual/?page=12

which examines the "it takes just one fibre to kill" theory and tests it against some statistics (I know, "lies, damned lies, and statistics") and comes up with a strong argument to support the idea that the issues are more associated with prolonged exposure and an accumulation of fibres, rather than a single fibre. It's an interesting read.

In the interest of balance though there is also this article;

https://www.asbestosnetwork.com/blog/2017/09/how-much-asbestos-exposure-is-harmful-there-is-no-safe-amount.shtml

which sets out the view that any exposure should be avoided.

My own personal opinion has always tended towards the "no safe level" approach as I am naturally somewhat risk averse. However, 2017 saw the issue come a bit too close to home for me when my eldest brother was diagnosed with mesothelioma, which has in turn been linked (with sufficient confidence for the insurance company to pay out) to a single exposure to asbestos some 40 or so years ago. He is a retired teacher who has never had any direct involvement in the asbestos industry, but who had the misfortune to be in the building at the school he worked at during some holiday refitting. British schools are riddled with the stuff from works carried out between the 1940's and the 1990's (ish) and he spent 1 day in the building without any PPE. Consequently my own risk averse stance has become even more entrenched.

The rationale behind my attitude is simple (and applies equally to the Radium issue in which I do have some level of training and competence having spent 5 years as the Company Radiation Protection Supervisor), and goes like this.

A single, low dose exposure, can cause health issues which can be serious or even fatal, however the probability is relatively low.

Repeated exposure resulting it an ever increasing cumulative dose will result in an ever increasing risk.

I can't see into the future to know whether or not or how often I am going to be unavoidably exposed to the hazard, and therefore whether or not he accumulated exposure is ever going to go critical. I therefore treat any exposure as something to be avoided on the grounds that it may help in keeping any potential future unavoidable exposures below the tipping point.

In short, there is no safe level of exposure.

Stay safe in 2018 people, Happy New Year.

 

[Halvis]

It is my understanding that it takes years before you notice symptoms from asbestos exposure. Is this correct?
I have had some respiratory issues in the last month+, but they are hopefully unrelated.

[Marc]

11 minutes ago, Halvis said:

It is my understanding that it takes years before you notice symptoms from asbestos exposure. Is this correct?
I have had some respiratory issues in the last month+, but they are hopefully unrelated.

I've read it takes any where between 10 an 80 years. In my brothers case it was 40 years, and it wasn't a gradual onset either so it wasn't 40 years of decline. He has annual chest X-rays to monitor a heart condition, has had for years, and they would have picked up any gradual deterioration. He went to see his GP because he thought he had a chest infection and that's when they picked it up.

[vinn3]

asbestos was very common,  in various products, 60 yrs. ago.  the next generation woun't see much of it.  the worst exposure was "steam pipe lagging".  it was replaced by   "fibre glass".   less of a problem. chest X rays - still a problem.  the  real problem is "old age",  VIN

[Halvis]

I've read it takes any where between 10 an 80 years. In my brothers case it was 40 years, and it wasn't a gradual onset either so it wasn't 40 years of decline. He has annual chest X-rays to monitor a heart condition, has had for years, and they would have picked up any gradual deterioration. He went to see his GP because he thought he had a chest infection and that's when they picked it up.

I'm sad to hear about your brother. I wish him all the best.

[nad]

Thanks for putting the record straight Marc.

A close friend had the misfortune of using Breathing Apparatus containing the stuff while working as a fireman in the 60's and 70's, he passed away the other year as a direct result.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[jdm]

2 hours ago, vinn3 said:

asbestos was very common,  in various products, 60 yrs. ago.  the next generation woun't see much of it.  the worst exposure was "steam pipe lagging".  it was replaced by   "fibre glass".   less of a problem. chest X rays - still a problem.  the  real problem is "old age",  VIN

You're totally off base here. There is people in their 50s dying of mesothelioma, as Marc explained above. In my country there are towns where every family has lost a member or two, they worked in extraction or derivate manufacturing.  

[vinn3]

33 minutes ago, jdm said:

You're totally off base here. There is people in their 50s dying of mesothelioma, as Marc explained above. In my country there are towns where every family has lost a member or two, they worked in extraction or derivate manufacturing.  

my guess,  you did not understand my post.

[vinn3]

sad to lose a friend or family member.   I lost an aunt painting air craft dials in 1943,   [sad to us all].