Waltham Vanguard Pocket watch not winding

[astralmind]

Alright, just acquired this Waltham Vanguard from a local auction on the cheap and was told it was in working condition - it isn't. Turning the crown offers little resistance (a bit) but does not tighten the main spring and popping up the crown does not let me set the time (hands won't move). In fact,  turning the crown won't make the crown wheel move at all. That being said, lightly tapping the balance wheel will give it some power and it starts ticking briefly and the seconds hand moves normally. The movement appear to be loose in the case as it almost pops out when I flip it over. What would the diagnosis be ? What I also find strange (and this is probably a stupid newbies observation is that there is a lever as well. It is listed as pendant (stem) adjustment and it "pops" accordingly but I wonder what the lever is for then if time is meant to be set in a pendant fashion ? Thank you!

[Ishima]

Well as for the looseness in the case the 'case screws' at the edge of the movement aren't tightened over the ledge of metal where you can see there are marks from where it was secured properly previously. 
Not sure what to suggest in regard to your winding problem other than disassembly and investigation of the keyless work/barrel bridge and components. You may be able to manually wind the barrel with a screwdriver (for testing not for every day) though I can't be sure that's a good procedure for pocket watches, I've never really worked on them and I've only done that with my Seiko which is a suggested procedure in their tech documents. 
I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about with the lever, but i suspect maybe in there lies the answer and perhaps my ignorance is showing too. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Ishima

[astralmind]

Slight but meaningful update - When I manually forced the crown wheel, the whole movement came alive within a few clicks for a solide 30 minutes. So the issues is not with the mainspring or with anything else besides the stem shaft or lever. 

Ishima - Lever settings were used on some older pocket watches as opposed to stem (pendant) settings to adjust the time/hands: https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/reference/setting-types

[TimFitz]

The lever is to set the time.

Tighten up the case screws with a good screwdriver then screw on the cover.

next take 0ff the front cover & make sure the lever  is pushed all the way in. Now try to wind it. My guess is the leveris out just enough to  keep ypu from winding the watch but not not far enough out to set the time. Basicly it's between.

Let   us know how it goes

Edited November 24, 2017 by TimFitz

[astralmind]

Hi TimFitz,

Thanks for the suggestion, did that and unfortunately, no go. I wiggled (gently) the lever in and out a few times as suggested as well and it didn't change anything. I pulled out the movement to check the stem and it seems 'ok' with well defined edges. I'll have to try and use a screwdriver to replicate the stem action as I suspect the stem is either too short or is not catching the mechanism appropriately for some reasons. Either that or the lever is broken and  the mechanism is stuck in an intermediary position keeping it for either winding or adjusting the time... if that's the issue than I'd really stuck as I have no idea how to trouble shoot that part. The lever appear to move freely as it should without resistance (should there actually be some resistance ?) yet is still firmly attached to the movement.

[oldhippy]

As it’s a Waltham it has a sleeve that screws inside the case part that the stem fits in, the sleeve has four parts to it, one or more of the parts could have broken, if so the stem won’t work. unscrew it.

 To remove the stem and crown, pull up the stem, remove the case screws that hold the movement in and remove the movement it comes out the front of case. Then you will see the square stem sticking into case, hold that with pliers and unscrew crown. The sleeve will be screwed into neck of case unscrew with sleeve wrench. Here is a photo of a sleeve wrench.

Edited November 24, 2017 by oldhippy

[astralmind]

Thanks oldhippy, I , managed to unscrew the crown, take the stem out, cleaned things a bit but don't have the proper tool to adjust the sleeve (did try with a flat blade but it wouldn't budge much). That being said, I tried inserting the stem in the movement and applying some downward pressure while trying to wind the watch and it was moving freely, no resistance, lever in, lever out (didn't move the hands either). I'm not comfortable taking the dial out to expose the switching gear (don't have tools to pry off the hands) but I'm guessing something must be off there ? Would unscrewing the crown wheel give me access to anything meaningful or is that a terrible idea ?

[oldhippy]

Access to the crown wheel means you willl need to remove the hands and dial. You say your not comfortable in doing this. I think you have the wrong name. If you mean the wheel next to the ratchet wheel that won't help you.

[JohnR725]

Looking up the serial number of your waltham Vanguard Is a model 1892. The problem with waltham and the model numbers are there way too many variations. As I'm not finding a nice picture of the setting parts to explain what's going on we will look at the parts catalog which you should find quite confusing. So the stem goes into part number 1629 Winding arbor the larger end Then impossible to see in the drawing the middle section is square. Then part number 1634 Winding setting clutch for lever set slides on the square part.  Then this part engages 1632 the winding pinion. This is underneath a crown wheel part number 1619 missing from this image.

So this would all be relatively simple except this is a waltham. So the key part is 1634 It has to slide smoothly on the square part that rides on. So for instance if this watch hasn't been serviced in 1 million years the grease gets sticky it doesn't move. So on one end it's used for setting the watch the other end winding the watch. Then I've attached another image with text we also need something called a Shipper and the proper associated shipper spring. So if you look at the images the shipper has a protruding part that goes into the groove found on 1634. Then lever doesn't control this directly it uses the shipping spring. Then the shipper spring is also used when the watches in winding position to hold the parts 1634 with 1632 and the spring part allows you to wind the watch backwards in the parts slide because they give here thanks to the spring. So it's really understand any of this the dial has to come off.

Then additional images unhelpful as it's not lever setting newer setting talking about the parts. Then crown wheel with winding pinion See how they go together. But you can also see the teeth on the end that engage with the winding setting clutch wheel 1634. This is where you can see that turning in one direction wind the watch turning the other direction they slip.

Then other than guessing like the watch hasn't been serviced in a long time or the shipper spring is broken or damaged or not in the right place basically now the dial has to come off. Then as you new to watch repair I would find something else to practice on as the deeper into the watch you go as a newbie more like Undesirable things will occur.  The Vanguard is usually considered a nicer watch so I wouldn't consider it a beginner's learning watch. Then hopefully this makes sense I would do so much better if I had a picture.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/18130706