Temperamental Omega Constellation

[Tomas]

 Hello all!

   A vintage Omega Constellation came into my hands recently.  All appears to be well with it as it is clean and undamaged and functioning as it should, however.... it will gain several seconds a day when warm and will lose several seconds a day when in a cooler environment. What is going on here?

    Thanks.

       T.

 

[frenchie]

Hello and welcome!

How vintage is it?

When was it last serviced?

Several seconds? how many are we talking about: 3 seconds a day or 300 seconds a day?

[rogart63]

Quartz or mechanical or maybe a "hummer" constellation. How cold and how warm? You probably have to give us more info before we can help you further? 

[Tomas]

1960's (?) vintage automatic wind Pie pan face, no date feature.   Temperature is from room temp (21C) to 36C ( in hot box). The movement has allegedly been serviced and lubed in the recent past.. so this is what i was told. Again, the movement is clean, bright and without any visible issues. Errors are  +- 90 seconds in a 24hr period.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Tomas
more info

[rodabod]

How odd. Oil viscosity should only effect amplitude.

So, could the balance be at fault? Is it a smooth-rimmed glycudur balance or a screw-rimmed type with temperature compensation? 

I would also make sure the tests are made with "all else being equal" and make a repeat of the tests. 

[Tomas]

It is a smooth rimmed balance. I was thinking this as well...if oil viscosity( wrong oil used in the wrong place) could be the culprit. The errors are practically nill if the test temperature remains constant.

[Watchfixr]

Can you check the amplitude at both temperatures? Also, you might check the end shake of the balance. If it's tight at the low temperature, it could free up some at the warmer temp. Lots of other things to check, but I would start there.

Marty

[Tomas]

Thanks Marty, I will be checking that end shake.   Unfortunately, I am not yet equipped to check the amplitude.

    Regards,

       Thomas

[mrbloke]

Make sure the pallet pivots have NOT been oiled. Also did you clean the watch, whats the amplitude like?

[Tomas]

I have not serviced the watch other than to attempt to adjust the rate. The story was that it had been serviced and likely cleaned by the good condition it is in.  Under the microscope, there IS evidence of oil throughout, including the pallet pivots. As per a previous suggestion, I I did check for end shake on the balance and found it to be noticeable. It would seem, given this, that there are compound problems at play to cause the rate with temperature variance. I do not yet have the means to measure amplitude.

[rogart63]

Is there to much oil? Maybe someone has done a addsomeextraoilservice . Add some oil to the jewels you see. The watch runs but not that good. Maybe it needs a real service. 

[Watchfixr]

You mean more oil is not better?

If there is oil on the pallet fork pivots, I would probably do a full service on this one and test it again. I do not oil the pallet fork pivots unless there is a cap jewel, and then only a tiny bit on the cap jewel and not the pivot jewels. And, I only put a minuscule amount of pallet stone oil on the stones by putting a small amount on the entrance stone and letting the motion of the escape wheel distribute the oil. We all have our preferences and there is more than one way to oil a movement, but some seem to work better than others.

 This one has captured my interest. Please post what you find the cause of the problem to be when you find it.

[rogart63]

59 minutes ago, Watchfixr said:

You mean more oil is not better?

If there is oil on the pallet fork pivots, I would probably do a full service on this one and test it again. I do not oil the pallet fork pivots unless there is a cap jewel, and then only a tiny bit on the cap jewel and not the pivot jewels. And, I only put a minuscule amount of pallet stone oil on the stones by putting a small amount on the entrance stone and letting the motion of the escape wheel distribute the oil. We all have our preferences and there is more than one way to oil a movement, but some seem to work better than others.

 This one has captured my interest. Please post what you find the cause of the problem to be when you find it.

To much oil is not good no. My thought was is someone had just put some more oil in without doing a proper service before. Seen that so often i have started to forget how many i have seen. it.  Seller says it's serviced recently . Ya right  

Edited August 4, 2017 by rogart63

[Watchfixr]

Sorry, I was joking of course. I too have seen more than my share of watches, and especially clocks, where they were oiled until almost dripping. Never a good thing!

[watson1]

On 04/08/2017 at 6:25 AM, mrbloke said:

Make sure the pallet pivots have NOT been oiled..............

Is this only for watches?

Or does it also apply to clocks with balance wheel, or with pendulum?

[rodabod]

On 05/02/2018 at 1:49 PM, watson1 said:

Is this only for watches?

Or does it also apply to clocks with balance wheel, or with pendulum?

This mainly applies to smaller wrist watches. 

[watson1]

thank you.