Installing Mainspring with Catch on Barrel Rim

[jdrichard]

Just installed a new Mainspring for a pocket watch barrel and it hooks onto the outer rim of the barrel. My problem is that once the spring is pushed into the barrel the centre arbour was hooked by the spring started to slip once it reached a little tension. This would indicate that the spring has unhooked or was never hooked to the outer barrel rim. Are there any Tips for making sure that the spring is actually hooked on the barrel?

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[JohnR725]

It looks like you're trying to put a mainspring in a Waltham Steel barrel? The problem is the original Springs have a taper in the hole and a little bend. So this makes more sense I'm attaching images of a original Waltham Mainspring. The replacements usually have just a punched hole with neither the taper or the bend which isn't going to work with the steel barrel hook. So if you can find a really tiny file or grinding stone usually filing a taper on the edge of the hole will solve the problem.

[jdrichard]

It looks like you're trying to put a mainspring in a Waltham Steel barrel? The problem is the original Springs have a taper in the hole and a little bend. So this makes more sense I'm attaching images of a original Waltham Mainspring. The replacements usually have just a punched hole with neither the taper or the bend which isn't going to work with the steel barrel hook. So if you can find a really tiny file or grinding stone usually filing a taper on the edge of the hole will solve the problem.

Ah ha! What makes sense. I will have a look at the old spring and check out the hole. Big thanks for the tip...it should work. Not sure why I would not have thought of that last night; perhaps too tired from thinking all day at work.

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[jdrichard]

This is a closer look at my old spring

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[jdrichard]

So I fixed it. What I did is ream the hole out bigger; did not have small enough files. Then I put a small bend at the end of the spring where the hole is. Then when I wound it into my bench spring winder, I made sure that when I loaded the spring into the barrel, that the wall hook had hooked the hole in the spring. Then I slowly released it. I then capped the barrel and hooked the arbour, loaded the centre pinion into the barrel (strange design) and sliped the lot into the movement and reassembled it. Using a bench key, I slowly turned the ratchet and the centre arbour hooked the spring. I u continued to wind, there was no slipping. TaDa DONE.


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[BUSAKAZ]

On ‎19‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 2:35 AM, jdrichard said:

So I fixed it. What I did is ream the hole out bigger; did not have small enough files. Then I put a small bend at the end of the spring where the hole is. Then when I wound it into my bench spring winder, I made sure that when I loaded the spring into the barrel, that the wall hook had hooked the hole in the spring. Then I slowly released it. I then capped the barrel and hooked the arbour, loaded the centre pinion into the barrel (strange design) and sliped the lot into the movement and reassembled it. Using a bench key, I slowly turned the ratchet and the centre arbour hooked the spring. I u continued to wind, there was no slipping. TaDa DONE.


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well done it feels good when you achieve something I had the same problem till a asked the same question on here.

[jdrichard]

well done it feels good when you achieve something I had the same problem till a asked the same question on here.

Update : the darn thing started to slip again, so I need to square the hole in the spring I guess. This is getting tiring, thought I fixed it. Ahhhhhhhh!


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[BUSAKAZ]

On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:01 AM, jdrichard said:

Update : the darn thing started to slip again, so I need to square the hole in the spring I guess. This is getting tiring, thought I fixed it. Ahhhhhhhh!


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you need to bend the last 5mm of the spring the end that meets the barrel wall.

[jdrichard]

you need to bend the last 5mm of the spring the end that meets the barrel wall.

Bend toward the wall or inward?


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[BUSAKAZ]

2 hours ago, jdrichard said:

Bend toward the wall or inward?


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inwards like the radius of the barrel

[Wesley881]

Hi, @jdrichard, I've been having similar trouble with a 12s Gr.225 Waltham and I've posed questions on a few threads.  I was wondering how the capping went for you?  I've not adjusted the new spring as shown here because I don't have a winder .  I'm in hopes that the factory replacement from Otto Frei will have the hole feature and bend so I can simply press it into the barrel.  My issue with the reassembly is that I don't want to force the main wheel on to the barrel before slipping the arbor in.  Do they snap together or need to be pressed?  Any advice would be great!

C

[BUSAKAZ]

All the new springs I have put in had to be bent on the end, you don't need a spring winder to put a spring in just strong fingers....

[Wesley881]

Thanks BUSAKAZ, I'm up for the challenge.  Got me some strong fingers for sure.  Do you hook onto the barrel wall and work inwards?

 

[BUSAKAZ]

15 minutes ago, Wesley881 said:

Thanks BUSAKAZ, I'm up for the challenge.  Got me some strong fingers for sure.  Do you hook onto the barrel wall and work inwards?

 

Yes make sure you bend the last 5 mm of the spring elt's it will slip off when it gets under pressure...

[digginstony]

Walthams can also slip on the centre arbor as well, especially if a little wear is present. Make sure it's a snug fit

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[Wesley881]

So I gave the manual spring install a few dry runs and then I made the bend.  Worked the first try!  Thanks all, I'm super pumped to have pulled this off without a winder.  Here's the Waltham ticking away with new crystal and hands.  Have to say the aftermarket hands took some more shaping and fiddling with than I expected, but hey not bad for a 100 year gap in manufacture.  It runs decent and is keeping fairly good time, but I cant leave running.  I need more practice oiling pallet stones and once I get a new cap jewel (bottom cap has a small chip and slows the pivot) it should sing.  Dad will be pleased, had it 50 years and never saw it run.

[jdrichard]

Good work


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[anilv]

Looks like the arbor may be slipping, not the wall?

Anilv

Edit :  I just realised that was the broken spring....dohhh!

Edited May 9, 2017 by anilv

[BUSAKAZ]

4 hours ago, Wesley881 said:

So I gave the manual spring install a few dry runs and then I made the bend.  Worked the first try!  Thanks all, I'm super pumped to have pulled this off without a winder.  Here's the Waltham ticking away with new crystal and hands.  Have to say the aftermarket hands took some more shaping and fiddling with than I expected, but hey not bad for a 100 year gap in manufacture.  It runs decent and is keeping fairly good time, but I cant leave running.  I need more practice oiling pallet stones and once I get a new cap jewel (bottom cap has a small chip and slows the pivot) it should sing.  Dad will be pleased, had it 50 years and never saw it run.

Well done I bet you are pleased with yourself all you have to do is ask and now you have the bug !!!!!

[Wesley881]

Thanks guys!  I sure am, this movement was really gooped up.  This was the first time I've tried one-dip - amazing.  Checked it this morning and it's about on the money.  I did notice, however, that in the face up position I could hear music coming from the watch...the same chord over and over.  Sounded a lot like me in middle school!  Not sure, but sounds like the regulator pin is strumming the hairspring like a guitar...?  Hoping to get a timegrapher this Summer, I use tick-o-print sometimes but don't have a solid movement to verify its accuracy and reliability. 

[Folkvisor]

Well, I cheated and I'm glad.

I had to remove and replace the mainspring on the Hamilton I'm working on 3 times but I finally got the T to fit both holes. I reamed the hole in the barrel and the top with a very small rat-tail file. I got the spring in but then the cleat on the arbour wouldn't stay in the slot at the end of the spring so I kind of put a very tiny wooden spacer in there to keep it in place.

One day, after I'm dead, a watchmaker will see what I did and 'tch tch' me but I don't care.

The watch works.

[Wesley881]

I'd certainly appreciate that solution, sometimes you have to 'run what you brung'.

[Folkvisor]

Exactly so...

[transporter]

19 hours ago, Wesley881 said:

So I gave the manual spring install a few dry runs and then I made the bend.  Worked the first try!  Thanks all, I'm super pumped to have pulled this off without a winder.  Here's the Waltham ticking away with new crystal and hands.  Have to say the aftermarket hands took some more shaping and fiddling with than I expected, but hey not bad for a 100 year gap in manufacture.  It runs decent and is keeping fairly good time, but I cant leave running.  I need more practice oiling pallet stones and once I get a new cap jewel (bottom cap has a small chip and slows the pivot) it should sing.  Dad will be pleased, had it 50 years and never saw it run.

Nice work mate, quick tip for you, ive had a few cracked dials like yours and have picked up a tip on cleaning them, get yourself a pack of denture cleaning tablets, 1x glass of warm water drop in the tablet and the dial and wait 3 mins take out dial rinse off and I guarantee that them cracks will be invisible.

Before you start make sure the numbers are actually in the enamel as they can be lifted if you are not careful,  its not happened to me yet but I'm always careful.

[Wesley881]

Right on!  That sounds like a plan, thanks.