My first buy

[JesmondLewis]

I finally received a stash of six watches for spares and repairs off ebay, the idea being I can take them apart and get a feel for tinkering. Managed to back two DNKYs (one ladies, one gents),

a ladies accurist, a ladies Armani, a gents Ciro Citterio and a gents Marco Ceroni, and all for less than a tenner. Getting any of them working is another thing entirely.

 

[ramrod]

i wonder how many are quartz and how many are mechanical.

[bobm12]

They all look quartz...that would be an interesting project!

[WileyDave]

Jesmond,

The trend on the bay is to package together fashion watches with one or two desirables, meaning sellers will get you to buy lower quality watches in the quest of a few that have value. Are yours worth taking apart? I suppose if you want to see how they are made, then yes. But you may find no jewel, quartz, relatively inexpensive movements, that are cheaper to replace then they are to try and fix. I passed on a lot last week that had 17 quartz complete watches, Seiko chronos and the like, and one Omega Seamaster 007. Upon closer examination, the "Omega" had some appearance flaws, (i.e. the case did not match almost every photo that came up on a web search, in addition, seller conveniently failed to even mention this watch in description, intentional deception? perhaps.

My suggestion is start with Timex, Bulovas or similar mechanical movements, look for complete watches, (case, bracelet, dial, hands, crystals) and in good overall condition. Running is a plus! I am not trying discourage you from taking on this project, just trying to save you time/effort and money. Quartz movement swaps are fairly easy and should help you develop necessary skills (and confidence) to move into more complex movements. Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of watches! Let us know how it goes.

Dave

"A broken watch is correct at least twice a day"

[bobm12]

For starters, the movements you may want to lock on to learn and the ones I've seen mostly recommended by people in the know -- and some others that don't know that much, mainly me! - are, not necessarily in this order: Seiko 7S26, ETA 6498, ETA 2801 and any other variations by family of those movements. (eg. Seiko 7S26 can be 7S36, ETA 6498 comes also in ETA 6497, ETA 2801 varies into 2824, 2836, etc)

Cheers,

Bob

[ramrod]

another real bargain is movement lots from ramon in the phillipines. i forgot his seller name. anyway, he often has seiko auto movements in lots of 12 - 16 for less than 20 bucks. this is a treasure for someone wanting to take one apart and perhaps do some diagnosing.

[ricardopalamino]

6 minutes ago, ramrod said:

another real bargain is movement lots from ramon in the phillipines. i forgot his seller name. anyway, he often has seiko auto movements in lots of 12 - 16 for less than 20 bucks. this is a treasure for someone wanting to take one apart and perhaps do some diagnosing.

Thewatchcollector

[JesmondLewis]

Thanks for the replies and the replies. The main thing is I've got watches to take apart and study at an affordable and these, regardless of quality or lack thereof, fit the bill. There seems to be little, if any, tampering on the watches though I could be wrong, hopefully they are as genuine as I first thought. Even if they're not they'll serve the purpose I got them for, though
I think I'll leave the Armani till I think I can restore it properly just in case. I'll certainly be bearing all your advice in mind and taking it seriously when I look for my next batch.

[Don]

On 4/29/2016 at 7:44 AM, ramrod said:

another real bargain is movement lots from ramon in the phillipines. i forgot his seller name. anyway, he often has seiko auto movements in lots of 12 - 16 for less than 20 bucks. this is a treasure for someone wanting to take one apart and perhaps do some diagnosing.

I've bought a couple of items from Thewatchcollector. He's a good and honest seller. The only thing I never understood is the "Redmond, Washington, United States" item location when everything ships from the Philippines (as stated in the item description). As long as you're aware of the actual item location and associated shipping time, there are good deals to be had.

[anilv]

Hi Jesmond

If you want to learn about watches, taking them apart and putting them back together again... start with a watch that's already working. No point wasting effort on something that may baffle an expert.

There are quite a lot of tips and tricks on the internet and Marks videos will give you the confidence to get going. Russian watches are robust and can be had cheaply off the net. You'd want something like ths....

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlot+of+russian+movements.TRS0&_nkw=lot+of+russian+movements&_sacat=0

Seller says that the balance is OK and the watch will run if shaken. This is a good sign as it probably means that all it needs is a good clean and oiling. USD 7 for shipping is fair.

For these simple watches you will need.

1. A GOOD pair of tweezers.. cheap ones will only frustrate you. I can't stress this strongly enough.

2. Good screwdrivers.. not as critical as tweezers but get some from a watch supply house specially meant for watches. The ones sold in flat plastic cases at general stores is pretty much useless.

3. Lighter fluid to clean parts (ronsonol or zippo works), and a small cup to hold said fluid while cleaning.

4. Pegwood .. this is a special type of wood used to clean watches. You sharpen the tip and use the pointy bit to poke the tiny jewel holes to cean them out. Pegwood is a special wood that won't splinter easily. Don't try to use those cocktail sticks, a splinter in the jewel hole is not good.

5. Rodico. This is a special watchmakers 'plasticine'. Typically green in colour. Faber-castell blutack is the same shade but useless for watches as its too 'oily'. Rodico is a great help for cleaning parts and picking up stuff like cap jewels.

6. Pithwood...another special wood that is used to clean pivots and the tips of your screwdriver/tweezers. Not strictly necessary .. I use Rodico.

7. Oils... you will need a light oil for the jewels (moebius 9010) and something heavier for slower moving wheels (moebius 9020). These oils are expensive so for a beginner you may use some cheaper oils like novastar. Also in the beginning you may find that your 'oiling technique' has not developed fully and you will waste a lot of oil.

Finally

8. A good data-plan, help is just a click away on this site!

Mechanical watches are good to learn on because they're ...well.., mechanical!. (I assume you have a bit of mechanical apptitude otherwise you wouldn't be bothered to walk down this road).

Problem with quartz is that troubleshooting is only viable if you have the electronic equipment and the knowledge to use them. Once you've identified the problem, chances are the part is not available individually and you would need to replace the whole movement anyway.

Personally I can get easily understand how any mechanical device works and even if I can't fix it at least I have a good idea of what wet wrong. But anything more complex than a DC motor I'd probably need help!

I realize that the comments you have been getting may be a bit discouraging but it's done with the best intent. Hopefully you will find the same gratification in this hobby that most of us have!

Looking forward to hear more from you.

Anil

[ricardopalamino]

Aloha Jesmond .

I like the words of advice and encouragement that member aniliv expressed and would also suggest that to get a working watch to learn on you can get a Seiko from some of the sellers from India rather inexpensivly including free shipping . Information , [and parts ] , for the Seiko calibers are readily available . 

[WillFly]

Excellent advice from Anil. I would also recommend a cheap, working Russian movement - Raketa, Vostok, etc. to play with. They're generally cheap'ish and quite rugged. A small Molnija pocket watch is a nice size to play with as well. And, while I'm banging on about it, don't disregard Indian HMT watches. There are lots of them on eBay, they're basic, standard-style movements, and it doesn't matter if you crash and burn on them!

[jdm]

6 hours ago, anilv said:

Problem with quartz is that troubleshooting is only viable if you have the electronic equipment and the knowledge to use them. Once you've identified the problem, chances are the part is not available individually and you would need to replace the whole movement anyway.

Not really, There are only two parts that can fail in quartz watch, and one (the coil) can be diagnosed with a common multi-meter ($10). No more knowledge than turning a knob and reading a display is needed. Sometime the parts are available but if it's a cheap movement as in most cases is, it will just cost few dollars to replace. Quartz watches are easy and fun to learn with, although most collectors and watchmakers look down on them.

Edited May 21, 2016 by jdm

[anilv]

Willful, Thanks for mentioning HMT....their handwind movements are quite nice, a copy of a citizen no doubt but a nice movement nonetheless.

JDM, thanks for the input on quartz..I usually have problems where coils test good (from a continuity aspect) but still doesn't work. Good that there's a quartz expert here!

Anil

[mcass]

Love the advice given here on Russian movements...other than my Bulova they have been what Ive used to learn on.

[DouglasSkinner]

I spent a lot of time taking down quartz watches.  For the beginner they allow him to work with small parts and gears to develop manual skills.  I suggest trying to clean them as an exercise because quartz movements are sensitive to dirt as the rotor has much less force to drive the train than provided by the mainspring in a mechanical watch.  I was surprised how many I was able to get working.  Once you get them back together, as long as the circuit and the coil are good, you don't have any regulation issues as with a mechanical watch.  Regulation takes practice and I'm still not completely there yet though I've been in school for almost a year and worked on my own before that.

As for diagnostic equipment Horotec makes a little quartz watch tester for about $400.  I have one, it works well but it's still pretty steep for some.  You can test the coil by using a demagnetizer; a bad coil will not drive the train.  From there, if the circuit is bad then either the watch simply won't work or it will work erratically.  So, in a pinch, you don't need to invest in a fancy tester to do most of the work required.  

 

There is some question as to how much or whether quartz movements should be oiled. Some few (not a majority but you many run across them on various internet sites) believe that oil gums up the movement and that it simply needs to be super clean (though most manufactures call for oil in their tech sheets).  I lean towards the oil side. Moebius make an expensive "quartz oil" which I've tried and works fine.

The only caveat with prestige quartz watches is that once inside, you may sometimes be disappointed to find it's only prestige and nothing else.  Some expensive brands rely on surprisingly cheap movements.

[DouglasSkinner]

Oh, I wanted to comment on the Indian made, HMT movement.  I've acquired several for very reasonable prices.  I've ordered some directly from India with free shipping!  I found them easy, even ladies sizes, to work with.  They're robust to folks like me who have "potato fingers".  Some of the Indian watches look pretty nice and seem to be of good value.  I like the one's with Hindi numerals and writing on the dial.

[jdm]

3 hours ago, DouglasSkinner said:

As for diagnostic equipment Horotec makes a little quartz watch tester for about $400.  I have one, it works well but it's still pretty steep for some.  You can test the coil by using a demagnetizer; a bad coil will not drive the train.  From there, if the circuit is bad then either the watch simply won't work or it will work erratically.  So, in a pinch, you don't need to invest in a fancy tester to do most of the work required.  

Good points. For curiosity, which is the Horotec tester? 

3 hours ago, DouglasSkinner said:

There is some question as to how much or whether quartz movements should be oiled. Some few (not a majority but you many run across them on various internet sites) believe that oil gums up the movement and that it simply needs to be super clean (though most manufactures call for oil in their tech sheets).  I lean towards the oil side. Moebius make an expensive "quartz oil" which I've tried and works fine.

I agree with that. If it's plastic no lubrication is needed otherwise can use mechanical movement oils, what moves slowly, setting levers pivots, stem get HP 1000 or 1300, what moves quickly get 9014.