Stereo Microscope

[gbyleveldt]

13 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

Ordered! Thank you!

Good call, I use the same ones

[Woolshire]

I’m thinking about entering the world of stereo microscopes, mainly because of upper back issues and a nasty pinched nerve that is currently whipping me. Correct posture while working is key and I haven’t been too good in that area, apparently. I have a great old roll-top watch bench that I’m not going to part with so I’ll likely need a stool to be high enough.

Anyway, looking at this one:

https://amscope.com/products/sm-6tx-frl?variant=40347625554095

thoughts?

[GuyMontag]

Seems a little pricey without including a camera. I got this one for $278 (plus $210 shipping) that also includes a 2K camera and a double arm boom stand. My understanding is that the same company makes both microscopes.

[Endeavor]

@Woolshire If people don't reveal their location, in some cases it becomes pointless to give advice. Given the link, I do assume that you are in the US?

GuyMontag seems to have a better deal, but whether these scopes are 100% identical is a good question? Perhaps they are, perhaps some savings are done to make such a scope that cheap?

For price reference, here an eBay deal (brand "Vevor") in Europe I was looking at: https://www.ebay.de/itm/352745406145?hash=item522143bec1:g:5W0AAOSwcMlfskCs&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4KZJjMAu4t%2FP3Xgnz3aC9%2BMY6euXoJlrl4zZtEsVzGEXBQJRjguYSZJjpq%2FzHdYNcofAzxzeJ3mPhMJx4zSqNK6%2BlPIMPfwLFnPxQPQsng0xySRWm51IY2vod6ThnEM92OaphBCIz6%2FA4Rh6AJZF7OYoEYsgdKRk1eazrmzU5bw7EJ4uu%2F%2Bwu8LQBVemDICYXZJEsuFzKgrUs%2BxoA23CknudAWqfn1yi8MLkGxN5umb8pqXl6lf8CVVXk3O1Rb2Ai9OD18yAb3Pvg6YIgokrfny46zlE%2B42wUJfpY918nfcA|tkp%3ABFBMuqXkq7Jh

But, I realized it was too big and too heavy (25kg!) for my desk. I found another interesting (AmScope) contender which has zoom Parfocal ! These are sold in the US too ..... With a 0.5x and a 2.0x Barlow lens and you can create a magnification range from 4x - 100x. With a 0.5x Barlow; 4x-25x, with the 2.0x Barlow 16x- 100x. Without a Barlow you get the advertised 8x-50x.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383508243375?hash=item594adf63af:g:AagAAOSwYodemiLq

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Endeavor

[spectre6000]

If I follow @Woolshirecorrectly, what he's after is mostly the stand. I broke the AmScope part number system down a few pages back, but I don't recall that particular stand as part of my breakdown. I'm fairly certain the exact same light can be had cheaper separately from a different seller. 

If I'm wrong about the stand, the link GuyMontag posted is the best deal I've seen yet (wish I'd seen it when I bought mine!), and the simufocal head is potentially better than a trinocular one. The dual boom stand does what's needed in terms of height and angle, unless what you need is nothing on the desktop.

[Woolshire]

Thanks for the tips this far. I am in the US. Just started looking, as I always thought I would use loupes. Seems my neck and back are starting to question that thought process.

[dadistic]

57 minutes ago, Woolshire said:

Thanks for the tips this far. I am in the US. Just started looking, as I always thought I would use loupes. Seems my neck and back are starting to question that thought process.

Loupes can be used without causing problems, but your work surface needs to be higher than a standard desk. 38" is a common height. You don't want to be bent or hunched over when you are working. When I first started, I was working on the dining room table, so instead of raising the table I lowered my chair. I sat on a stool with my legs stretched out, so that I was at the right height with respect to the table.  Eventually I got better benches. 

[GuyMontag]

13 hours ago, Endeavor said:

@Woolshire GuyMontag seems to have a better deal, but whether these scopes are 100% identical is a good question? Perhaps they are, perhaps some savings are done to make such a scope that cheap?

This video compares the Eakins and the Amscope microscopes:

 

 

[Woolshire]

Good video. Thanks!

This one looks pretty decent and includes free shipping. Appears to include a nice camera. $402 seems like a good deal, especially since there are reviews speaking to the quality of similar scopes. I’m looking forward to learning to do most of the watch work under a scope, something I’ve never done before. Seems a little strange having my eyes a foot away from some of the finer work.

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804773155382.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.e35eZvaiZvair2&browser_id=479c6c0e00b44583a8f474b140f55a67&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=ync5giple8caa0db185c261c85612296b1031dc261&gclid=&pdp_npi=2%40dis!USD!574.34!402.04!!!!!%402103250d16740035726668658e906a!12000031158385448!sea&curPageLogUid=nja5zfWnPHF1&algo_pvid=52155664-5cd4-4db7-9966-6ffc29eec654

[spectre6000]

Looks like nearly the entire catalog. Most of which will likely just sit in a drawer; especially for watchmaking purposes. Looks like a different head than the AmScope SM that keeps getting tossed around. Not sure if that's good or bad. I'd be digging real deep and hard before I pulled the trigger personally. The price difference isn't that dramatic. 

Have you been able to find the stand on its own? The link GuyMontag posted above is cheap enough that you might be able to get that (looks for all the world to be the same as the SM head) and the clamp on stand. Sell the boom stand to recoup even more savings if you're so inclined.

[xyzzy]

On 1/17/2023 at 5:23 PM, Woolshire said:

Good video. Thanks!

This one looks pretty decent and includes free shipping. Appears to include a nice camera. $402 seems like a good deal, especially since there are reviews speaking to the quality of similar scopes. I’m looking forward to learning to do most of the watch work under a scope, something I’ve never done before. Seems a little strange having my eyes a foot away from some of the finer work.

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804773155382.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.e35eZvaiZvair2&browser_id=479c6c0e00b44583a8f474b140f55a67&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=ync5giple8caa0db185c261c85612296b1031dc261&gclid=&pdp_npi=2%40dis!USD!574.34!402.04!!!!!%402103250d16740035726668658e906a!12000031158385448!sea&curPageLogUid=nja5zfWnPHF1&algo_pvid=52155664-5cd4-4db7-9966-6ffc29eec654

That stand doesn't look like you can adjust the angle of the head.  I like to adjust it so the head is looking forward slightly.  Otherwise you can only see the back of your hand when you use a screwdriver.

The single arm stand in the youtube video looks very flimsy.  Look at the way the scope bounces around.  

[spectre6000]

Ohh! Yeah. Missed that. The angle adjustment is a big one. Kinda hard to sink a screw through a wildly out of focus fingernail.

[GuyMontag]

12 hours ago, xyzzy said:

That stand doesn't look like you can adjust the angle of the head.  I like to adjust it so the head is looking forward slightly.  Otherwise you can only see the back of your hand when you use a screwdriver.

The single arm stand in the youtube video looks very flimsy.  Look at the way the scope bounces around.  

Like with Amscope, you can get the microscope head with various stands (or none at all and put in any stand you want). The Eakins that I purchased and linked above came with a double arm boom stand which is quite stable and the head can be titled. I think the comparison in the video was more about the microscope optics.

Edited January 20, 2023 by GuyMontag

[Woolshire]

I like the clamp-on articulating arm type to make more room on the bench. Although, the stand type with boom would also work. A couple things I’m wondering are weight and height. It seems I will need a stool to be high enough and and clamp-on more than ~20 lbs could be an  issue. Here’s a photo of my bench. I love it. The drawers all lock when the roll-top is closed. It came from a local watchmakers estate who was in business 1910’s to 1950’s. I’m thinking the scope clamp would go on the front corner.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Woolshire

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, Woolshire said:

height

I have three operational watch benches like yours. I have not come up with a way to use my scope on them because of height. My scope sits on a standard height office desk

[dadistic]

It's going to be tough to use a scope on that bench, although I love the bench

Even my very tall task stool isn't really tall enough that I could use my scope on my watchmakers bench, and it goes to ~ 75cm (30").

 

 

[xyzzy]

I've used the articulating type at work, and I didn't like them as much.  With the long arm, they vibrate.  And don't stay as steady as you adjust the focus and magnification. The dual arm design and rotate and slide on the bearings, allowing it to move in the X-Y plane easily, to move the view around the workpiece while the Z axis, and thus the focus, remains constant.   The the arm design is free to move in all directions, so it doesn't stay in focus as you move it around as easily.

To give you an idea of height, with a 0.5X barlow the vertical distance from the eyepieces to the desk is about 17".  0.5x is the most useful working distance and magnification range.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, xyzzy said:

0.5x is the most useful working distance and magnification range.

Yes indeed

[Razz]

I know this has been covered but wanted to share my experience. I have read all the threads in this subforum and know this is all been discussed in length and it boils down to personnel preference. I think that a stereo microscope is an essential tool and most watchmakers should have one for their low bench. for the other 10% of work on a high bench a 2.5 (inches of focal length) Bergeron loupe is what I use. I got the trinocular and back earlier this year it cost $498.00, all in (without the camera) with the Barlow lens, shipping, tax everything. As Alex Hamilton on his youtube channel and Klaas on Chronoglide says, it is a game changer and WILL make you a better watchmaker. You can't work on what you can't see. You can tilt the head so that your hands are not in the way (this is set at about 6% - i know because on my photo cropping tool I can rotate the image and it gives me ! degree increments that I can use to line up the horizontal lines on the scope). I have a range of working area under the lens of 15 to 20 cm, depending on the zoom. It also has another 12 cm of "play" to adjust the range to fit anyone's bench and chair heights, and seat to eye level height.

The eyepieces can be adjusted to individual eyes both focus for differences in eye strength and width to get the center of your eyes in the center of the lens. The cups can be rolled back on the eye pieces for glasses the same as birding binoculars and adjusting the  eyepieces is exactly the same as on field binoculars in that you use your dominant eye to fine tune the focus in that eyepiece (with both eyes open), then leaving your dominant eye open block it (you can close it but technically you should have both your eyes open when doing this adjustment) and adjust the focus on the other eyepiece. Klaas does a similar adjustment discussion on his youtube channel as well as a couple of other useful tip on setting up the scope. Hope this helps someone interested in obtaining and setting up this tool.

Here is my set up. Yes, I know I have carpet, but I do have a chair mat and a nice padded professional stool. Thinking bout adding a second mat and sliding the other one over that will get me to a hard surface under the entire work area.

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 hours ago, Razz said:

I know this has been covered but wanted to share my experience. I have read all the threads in this subforum and know this is all been discussed in length and it boils down to personnel preference. I think that a stereo microscope is an essential tool and most watchmakers should have one for their low bench. for the other 10% of work on a high bench a 2.5 (inches of focal length) Bergeron loupe is what I use. I got the trinocular and back earlier this year it cost $498.00, all in (without the camera) with the Barlow lens, shipping, tax everything. As Alex Hamilton on his youtube channel and Klaas on Chronoglide says, it is a game changer and WILL make you a better watchmaker. You can't work on what you can't see. You can tilt the head so that your hands are not in the way (this is set at about 6% - i know because on my photo cropping tool I can rotate the image and it gives me ! degree increments that I can use to line up the horizontal lines on the scope). I have a range of working area under the lens of 15 to 20 cm, depending on the zoom. It also has another 12 cm of "play" to adjust the range to fit anyone's bench and chair heights, and seat to eye level height.

The eyepieces can be adjusted to individual eyes both focus for differences in eye strength and width to get the center of your eyes in the center of the lens. The cups can be rolled back on the eye pieces for glasses the same as birding binoculars and adjusting the  eyepieces is exactly the same as on field binoculars in that you use your dominant eye to fine tune the focus in that eyepiece (with both eyes open), then leaving your dominant eye open block it (you can close it but technically you should have both your eyes open when doing this adjustment) and adjust the focus on the other eyepiece. Klaas does a similar adjustment discussion on his youtube channel as well as a couple of other useful tip on setting up the scope. Hope this helps someone interested in obtaining and setting up this tool.

Here is my set up. Yes, I know I have carpet, but I do have a chair mat and a nice padded professional stool. Thinking bout adding a second mat and sliding the other one over that will get me to a hard surface under the entire work area.

Nice tidy set up Razz, light,airey and  uncluttered, i particularly like the tall cabinet on the left. I dont know why folk rag so much on a carpeted floor. If you drop something on a hard floor, it bounces and can roll off to anywhere. With a carpet it stays where it lands, i find a short pile carpet perfect, the old magnet and torch find it easily. 

[Razz]

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Nice tidy set up Razz, light,airey and  uncluttered, i particularly like the tall cabinet on the left. I dont know why folk rag so much on a carpeted floor. If you drop something on a hard floor, it bounces and can roll off to anywhere. With a carpet it stays where it lands, i find a short pile carpet perfect, the old magnet and torch find it easily. 

Thanks! Yes and with my 2 foot magnet bar within reach, I can sometimes find something dropped within the first sweep or two. The problem is with serious pinged parts, but then hard floors don't help much if it is on the other side of the room (which is much less cluttered as well)!

[gpraceman]

I just pulled the trigger on an Eakins version of the AmScope SM-4TP.  It was significantly cheaper, factoring in that the Eakins one that I got comes with the 10X and 20X eye pieces, 0.5X and 2.0X Barlow lenses, 48MP 2K camera, C mount bracket, ring light, simul focus, and dual boom stand with tilting head feature.  It was just under $442 out the door.  AmScope is currently having a 15% off Veterans Day sale and the Eakins price still beat it.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832821477621.html

Not sure just how good (or bad) the Eakins cameras are, but hopefully good enough for photos and videos of the disassembly.

I'm looking forward to using this.  My digital microscope is pretty good, but working through an optical microscope sounds much better.

Edited November 12, 2023 by gpraceman

[GuyMontag]

I have the same microscope/camera. Until recently I had no complaints but the camera has started acting up. It will stop recording for no reason, sometimes after a minute or two, sometimes after 10 minutes, sometimes it records normally. Really frustrating when I look up and see that the camera had stopped recording who knows how long ago. I've tried several different micro SD cards, recording in 1080 vs. 2K, doesn't seem to matter.

Some other frustrations include not being able to adjust the exposure while recording which is an issue because if the exposure is perfect while zoomed in, when you zoom out it is so bright everything is blown out and you have to stop recording, adjust exposure and then start recording again. Also, unlike any camera I've used before recorded videos are only numbered sequentially if you don't delete files from the card. I also wish it had a microphone port as there are times I want to make an audio note while I'm working on the movement. I forget why now, but I ended up replacing the the c-mount adapter included with the scope with one off of ebay.

BTW, one trick that you may need is when you stop a recording and then want to start recording again, it usually doesn't respond to the record button. I've discovered that you have to (for some reason) hit the button to take a picture and then you can start recording again.

Edited November 12, 2023 by GuyMontag

[gpraceman]

7 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I have the same microscope/camera. Until recently I had no complaints but the camera has started acting up. It will stop recording for no reason, sometimes after a minute or two, sometimes after 10 minutes, sometimes it records normally. Really frustrating when I look up and see that the camera had stopped recording who knows how long ago. I've tried several different micro SD cards, recording in 1080 vs. 2K, doesn't seem to matter.

Some other frustrations include not being able to adjust the exposure while recording which is an issue because if the exposure is perfect while zoomed in, when you zoom out it is so bright everything is blown out and you have to stop recording, adjust exposure and then start recording again. Also, unlike any camera I've used before recorded videos are only numbered sequentially if you don't delete files from the card. I also wish it had a microphone port as there are times I want to make an audio note while I'm working on the movement. The c-mount adapter included with the scope didn't have a focus ability so I picked up one off of ebay.

BTW, one trick that you may need is when you stop a recording and then want to start recording again, it usually doesn't respond to the record button. I've discovered that you have to (for some reason) hit the button to take a picture and then you can start recording again.

I experience the same type of issue with my digital microscope camera in regards to recording.  I resorted to using the HDMI interface to connect up my laptop and used that to do the recording and take photos.

[gpraceman]

I ended up changing my order to the microscope with no camera.  After doing some more digging around YouTube, I ended up ordering the Hayear 14MP camera.  Significantly cheaper from AliExpress than Amazon.

Edited November 12, 2023 by gpraceman