Pin Gauges for Jewel Hole Measuring

[SargentColon]

I have been looking for a way to measure the holes in Jewels so I can organize my small collection.

I have a JKA tool for the outside diameter but I have no way of measuring the inside diameter of the hole.

Correction I have a Swartchild tool for measuring between 0.6mm and 2.0mm but no smaller. I'm guessing I might need 0.01 increments but what are the standard sizes?

Am I overthinking it or is there a tool out there made for the purpose. 

I was looking at a Starrett Pin Gauge set but I'm not sure of the sizes I might require.

Any help would be useful.

[VWatchie]

Interesting question. I've seen a specific tool for this here on WRT. I'll see if I can find that post. In the meantime perhaps Google this:

site:watchrepairtalk.com measure jewel hole

site:watchrepairtalk.com tool jewel hole measure

[SargentColon]

I did the searches and they mostly come back to this and one other question I have asked in the past.

Thank you for taking a moment to help though.

 

[tomh207]

Having recently acquired a JKA Feintaster myself I ordered a set of pin guages from Aliexpress. Randomly measuring them they look good. I am planning to get some jewels now to experiment with.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003664177054.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.29.550018027e4OVW
 

these are the ones I ordered, I also bought 100 plastic sample vials from amazon to organise jewels 

 

Tom

[SargentColon]

2 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Having recently acquired a JKA Feintaster myself I ordered a set of pin guages from Aliexpress. Randomly measuring them they look good. I am planning to get some jewels now to experiment with.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003664177054.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.29.550018027e4OVW
 

these are the ones I ordered, I also bought 100 plastic sample vials from amazon to organise jewels 

 

Tom

Yes this is what I was looking at. I have a 10 year service award from my company with some Amazon vouchers so I was going to splurge on the Starrett set and keep the quality high, but are there standard sizes of holes in Jewels? Would you need all these 91 sizes? is this overkill?

 

[tomh207]

@SargentColon according to the Seitz book the id run from 8-32 hundreds of a mm, so not all would possibly be needed however there were more manufacturers of jewels than Seitz. I’m sure the professionals here would know more than me.

This may help 

 

Tom

Seitz book 3.pdf

[VWatchie]

7 hours ago, SargentColon said:

are there standard sizes of holes in Jewels?

The more common Jewel hole diameters are from about 0.07mm to 0.50mm. Those are the sizes in the Seitz jewel gauge tool.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

The more common Jewel hole diameters are from about 0.07mm to 0.50mm. Those are the sizes in the Seitz jewel gauge tool.

Also been looking at the same ones as Tom 0.1.- 1mm around 55 quid inc shipping. The pivot straightner i have runs from 0.07  -  0.15 in increments of 25 microns.  I guess you could use a balance staff of sizes under 0.1 to make up the remainder of the lower sizes.

[tomh207]

12 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Also been looking at the same ones as Tom 0.1.- 1mm around 55 quid inc shipping. The pivot straightner i have runs from 0.07  -  0.15 in increments of 25 microns.  I guess you could use a balance staff of sizes under 0.1 to make up the remainder of the lower sizes.

From what I’ve seen Rich below 0.1mm aren’t available unless maybe from a Swiss manufacturer I don’t know and I can easily imagine the price for 1 to be more than that whole Aliexpress set

my next thought is that the really small sizes would be more likely found in ladies movements which we do less often? Maybe one of the professional guys we are so lucky to have here can help educate us?

 

Tom

[Marc]

There is a tool for this, if you can find one. It's called an Obama Jewel Hole Gauge.

It consists of a finely tapered pin which you push into the hole as far as it will go. The pin then pushes back into the body of the instrument until the jewel is against the tip. The hole diameter can then be read off the scale in 0.01mm increments down to 0.05mm.

If you could find a suitably fine tapered pin there's no reason why you couldn't improvise by marking where the jewel sits on the taper and then measuring it with a micrometer.

In practice though if you are replacing a jewel you could always just measure the pivot that is going to run in it.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

13 minutes ago, Marc said:

There is a tool for this, if you can find one. It's called an Obama Jewel Hole Gauge.

It consists of a finely tapered pin which you push into the hole as far as it will go. The pin then pushes back into the body of the instrument until the jewel is against the tip. The hole diameter can then be read off the scale in 0.01mm increments down to 0.05mm.

If you could find a suitably fine tapered pin there's no reason why you couldn't improvise by marking where the jewel sits on the taper and then measuring it with a micrometer.

In practice though if you are replacing a jewel you could always just measure the pivot that is going to run in it.

 

Yep seen this tool before but never for sale. I bet there aren't many that aren't broken.

[VWatchie]

Here are a couple of pictures of the tool that I mentioned in my first reply:

Got the picture from here: https://klocksnack.se/threads/hobby-hörna-hemma-verktyg-tips-och-trix.163821/#post-4291582

Edited March 19 by VWatchie

[Neverenoughwatches]

36 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

From what I’ve seen Rich below 0.1mm aren’t available unless maybe from a Swiss manufacturer I don’t know and I can easily imagine the price for 1 to be more than that whole Aliexpress set

my next thought is that the really small sizes would be more likely found in ladies movements which we do less often? Maybe one of the professional guys we are so lucky to have here can help educate us?

 

Tom

I didn't think there were any gauges under 0.1  .  I do like the old art deco tanks which are small sizes. My staff stash amounts to around half a mil. So i think I probably have that base covered. This 0.1mm set seems to be the most expensive, larger 100 piece set are about half the price. For around a 100 quid you can have sizes from 0.1 up to 4mm. Bugs me that they charge shipping for each seperate item so no combined shipping fee available. 

6 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Here are a couple of pictures of the tool that I mentioned in my first reply:

Got the picture from here: https://klocksnack.se/threads/hobby-hörna-hemma-verktyg-tips-och-trix.163821/#post-4291582

Do you have the variable pin gauge as well ?

[VWatchie]

19 minutes ago, Marc said:

In practice though if you are replacing a jewel you could always just measure the pivot that is going to run in it.

Yes, but the idea was that the OP wanted to be able to measure the diameter of the jewel holes in his collection of unordered jewels.

Also, depending on the type of micrometre used one has to be careful not to dent the very small pivots (< 0.12mm) when pinching them in the micrometre. In my experience, the JKA Feintaster is safe to use also when measuring very small pivots.

5 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Do you have the variable pin gauge as well ?

I don't understand your question, which I think was for me, no?

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Yes, but the idea was that the OP wanted to be able to measure the diameter of the jewel holes in his collection of unordered jewels.

Also, depending on the type of micrometre used one has to be careful not to dent the very small pivots (< 0.12mm) when pinching them in the micrometre. In my experience, the JKA Feintaster is safe to use also when measuring very small pivots.

I don't understand your question, which I think was for me, no?

Somewhere in the back of my mind i thought you had the jewelled seitz pivot gauge, i was just asking if you had this scaled pin gauge as well. I might have just made up that thought  H.

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Somewhere in the back of my mind i thought you had the jewelled seitz pivot gauge, i was just asking if you had this scaled pin gauge as well. I might have just made up that thought  H.

Yes, I do have the Seitz pivot gauge which is worth a small fortune these days. Got mine for about £200 which I thought to be crazy expensive at the time, but I've now seen asking prices over twice that. And no, I do not have the scaled pin gauge, but it would be convenient. Let me know if you find them!

Anyway, the Seitz pivot gauge is in my opinion not really necessary if you have the JKA Feintaster. It can measure even the very small pivots w/o making any dents. One will have to be a lot more careful when using the Bergeon micrometres.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

One will have to be a lot more careful when using the Bergeon micrometres.

You do, there was a bench one on ebay last week that had a small adjustable resting table which mine doesn't have but it was nearly 10 times what i paid. I think i do ok with mine and have measured lots of staff and some jewel, i have a very light touch and stable hands which is one of the reasons ive stayed with the hobby. I have yet to get my head around how "EVERYTHING" works

[VWatchie]

17 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

You do, there was a bench one on ebay last week that had a small adjustable resting table which mine doesn't have but it was nearly 10 times what i paid. I think i do ok with mine and have measured lots of staff and some jewel, i have a very light touch and stable hands which is one of the reasons ive stayed with the hobby.

Yes, you'll have to be extremely careful with pivot diameters less than about 0.12mm. They are all too easy to dent even with a very, very light hand. I have the Bergeon version with the adjustable table too but I must say I prefer the JKA Feintaster. Also, the JKA has a dial that I find to be very pleasing, both from an aesthetic and practical perspective. I always feel a little extra happy when I get the chance to use it. I'm not being nerdy now, am I!? 

There's a Swedish watch that reminds me of the JKA named Strayer. I love its dial but way, way too expensive for me.

17 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I have yet to get my head around how "EVERYTHING" works

We'll all soon be there! 

Edited March 19 by VWatchie

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

I'm not being nerdy now, am I!? 

No not at all, you nerd