Unable to remove movement ring - Hamilton Khaki Aviation Day Date

[howzz1854]

hi all!,

First post here. After several years of collecting, I finally decided to do some light repair work myself after amassing a growing collection of watches. I got tired of sending the watch to my watchmaker everytime to fix handset alignment. As I am a huge stickler when it comes to handset alignment, the cost of those alignment adds up. Prior to this, I've already done my own case opening, regulation (using timegrapher), pressure test using a 6 atm wet tester etc, and i've successfully remove watch crystal using crystal press. Each time I slowly progress to something more complicated. I recently got all the tools for re-adjusting handsets. But I am having the darnest time figuring out how to remove the movement ring from a Hamilton Khaki Aviation Day Date Auto H64615135 with the Powermatic 80 movement. 

Prior to this, i was able and successfully remove the movement out of a CWC Mellor 72 by removing the movement ring screws and it just dropped right out. 

With the Hamilton Khaki Aviation, I am able to remove the caseback with ease using screw driver, removing the stem/crown using the correct procedure for this movement, and also removing the 3 screws on the outer movement ring holding the ring in place. I've also removed the 2 screws holding the movement to the movement ring. at this point, the movement ring rotates freely and independently from the movement. But it just won't come out. please see picture for reference. 

I tried lifting it with my tweezer, no go. tried turning the watch over to see if it'll drop out of the case, no go. i tried using a slightly bit more force to lift the ring by grabbing on some screw holes but it just won't lift. 

Does anyone have any insight to getting this Powermatic 80 movement out of the case? is it one of those movements that only comes out from the front? If so, i might just send it in to a watchmaker. But if the ring requires some kind of trickery to get it out, please let me know. 

any help is appreciated. 

[howzz1854]

bump. 

really would appreciate any help. otherwise, it's one more trip to the watchmaker and another $175 to adjust the hands. 

[RichardHarris123]

Does it come out of the front? 

[watchweasol]

Hi maybe some pictures of the front and the side of the watch will give us a clue as to the problem you face,  thanks.

[howzz1854]

thank you for the responses. 

here's front and side of the watch as requested. I don't know it'll come out from the front. But if indeed it's one of those watches that need to come out from the front, I would then prefer just sending it in to my watchmaker to have it done instead. But any confirmation would be appreciated as well. 

[Jon]

This is clearly a front loading movement. Measure the width of the dial, then measure the width of the opening in the case-back, then you'll understand there is no way the movement could come out of the back. It's pretty apparent from your photos

[howzz1854]

35 minutes ago, Jon said:

This is clearly a front loading movement. Measure the width of the dial, then measure the width of the opening in the case-back, then you'll understand there is no way the movement could come out of the back. It's pretty apparent from your photos

hi Jon, 

Thanks for your expertise. This is exactly what I am looking for. I wouldn't have thought of the dial vs caseback measurement difference to arrive at the conclusion of front loaded movement until you pointed it out. This saves me the potential mishap. I already learned once to not force my way into a watch without fully understanding the mechanism. 

Really appreciate yours and everyone else's feedback!! 

Edited March 1 by howzz1854

[Jon]

1 hour ago, howzz1854 said:

hi Jon, 

Thanks for your expertise. This is exactly what I am looking for. I wouldn't have thought of the dial vs caseback measurement difference to arrive at the conclusion of front loaded movement until you pointed it out. This saves me the potential mishap. I already learned once to not force my way into a watch without fully understanding the mechanism. 

Really appreciate yours and everyone else's feedback!! 

You're very welcome. the bezel isn't going to be that hard to remove. It is either a screw down bezel or a friction fit. try using a 'sticky ball' to remove it first by gripping it with the ball and turning

[howzz1854]

1 hour ago, Jon said:

You're very welcome. the bezel isn't going to be that hard to remove. It is either a screw down bezel or a friction fit. try using a 'sticky ball' to remove it first by gripping it with the ball and turning

interesting... 

do you mean gripping the bezel with the sticky ball? or gripping the crystal with a sticky ball? and clock wise or counter clock wise?
I may try to order a sticky ball then. Been using a much larger caseback opening bench to open all my watch casebacks. 

thanks

[JohnR725]

16 hours ago, howzz1854 said:

really would appreciate any help. otherwise, it's one more trip to the watchmaker and another $175 to adjust the hands. 

I see your getting help so my warning will be a waste of time but a lot of times you don't get help if we've never seen the watch before or never worked on it. Which sometimes happens if this watch is a proprietary Swatch group watch so be careful what you break you may not be able to replace whatever you break. Swatch group doesn't like all watchmakers only their chosen ones and even then they barely tolerate them.

[Jon]

12 hours ago, howzz1854 said:

you mean gripping the bezel with the sticky ball? or gripping the crystal with a sticky ball? and clock wise or counter clock wise?

Grip the bezel with the ball and turn anti clockwise. More than likely it will grip the crystal, but that shouldn't be a problem, as the crystal will be fitted very tightly into the bezel with a gasket

[howzz1854]

thought i'd give everyone an update. I ordered a sticky ball and tried the gripping the bezel anti-clock wise. no luck!. i tried really pressing the ball really hard until it slipped and the bezel still wouldn't budge. Is there a possibility that this watch needs a crystal lift to remove the crystal, instead of the bezel to get to the dial? watched some tutorials on crystal lift, but those were with acrylic crystals. 

[JohnR725]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:07 PM, Jon said:

This is clearly a front loading movement. Measure the width of the dial, then measure the width of the opening in the case-back, then you'll understand there is no way the movement could come out of the back. It's pretty apparent from your photos

as I'm reviewing the discussion this is exactly what I was thinking. You look at the front of the watch you look at the opening in the back and the fronts definitely bigger than the back at least by the pictures.

On 3/1/2024 at 1:52 PM, Jon said:

the bezel isn't going to be that hard to remove. It is either a screw down bezel or a friction fit. try using a 'sticky ball' to remove it first by gripping it with the ball and turning

I don't think I've ever seen in a screw on bezel at least like this. I'm pretty sure you'll have to pry the ring off to get the whole thing off. They do make special tools for this though if you can't get something conveniently underneath it.

one of the unfortunate problems of Swatch group products are we don't have access to a Swatch group database because otherwise if we had a case number we can look up the casing information and get all kinds of nifty information but somebody has to have Swatch group access.

 

7 hours ago, howzz1854 said:

Is there a possibility that this watch needs a crystal lift to remove the crystal, instead of the bezel to get to the dial? watched some tutorials on crystal lift, but those were with acrylic crystals. 

I look forward to the crystal lift idea make sure you get a video for us we all could use a laugh. Well you're not going to be laughing as your crystal is going to disintegrate so is the bezel and not can be a pretty picture at all crystal lifts are only for acrylic crystals plastic the flexible. I'm guessing that's probably a sapphire crystal and sapphire does not bend to come out it was pressed in. The bezel ring has to be pried off carefully would be my guess.

[howzz1854]

15 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

as I'm reviewing the discussion this is exactly what I was thinking. You look at the front of the watch you look at the opening in the back and the fronts definitely bigger than the back at least by the pictures.

I don't think I've ever seen in a screw on bezel at least like this. I'm pretty sure you'll have to pry the ring off to get the whole thing off. They do make special tools for this though if you can't get something conveniently underneath it.

one of the unfortunate problems of Swatch group products are we don't have access to a Swatch group database because otherwise if we had a case number we can look up the casing information and get all kinds of nifty information but somebody has to have Swatch group access.

 

I look forward to the crystal lift idea make sure you get a video for us we all could use a laugh. Well you're not going to be laughing as your crystal is going to disintegrate so is the bezel and not can be a pretty picture at all crystal lifts are only for acrylic crystals plastic the flexible. I'm guessing that's probably a sapphire crystal and sapphire does not bend to come out it was pressed in. The bezel ring has to be pried off carefully would be my guess.

Thanks for all your input, and particularly the information on the crystal lift. i guess it would otherwise be a pretty entertaining post for everyone but me.  this is why I've learned to be patient now in my watch learning journey and not resort to sudden knee jerk reaction type of solution. 

I don't think i'll attempt to pry the ring off. My local watchmaker is a certified swatch group service branch, i've taken many swatch group watches to them for service already ie. Omega, Longines, Hamilton etc. I guess this will just be one more piece. 

 

[JohnR725]

14 minutes ago, howzz1854 said:

I don't think i'll attempt to pry the ring off. My local watchmaker is a certified swatch group service branch, i've taken many swatch group watches to them for service already ie. Omega, Longines, Hamilton etc. I guess this will just be one more piece. 

the unfortunate reality of a lot of watch brands that do not supply parts to well any of us. not only do they not supply parts you do not have access to the technical library. Each the Swatch group brands as a separate technical library. Which strangely enough for the most part can all be accessed from each brand. So the words if you login to Omega is a way of accessing all of the other brands for the most part.

Another thing I find interesting is just because you have access doesn't mean you get full access as there are various levels of access of Swatch group information. So if you don't have the right level you may not even build access the technical and you definitely wouldn't be able to order anything.

so the unfortunate reality is with some watches they have to go back to the authorized service. Which is why someplace out there that used to be a website urging consumers not to purchase watches from specific brands that would not let you service your own watch I don't know if that website is still out there?

 

[rjenkinsgb]

This is a type of tool that may be suitable to remove the bezel - though note that I'm pretty sure the watch should be face down - not face up, as in some of the photos of these tools on amazon & ebay!

If you try one one of those, put the movement screws back in first to avoid accidents.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Removal-Professional-Remover-Watchmaker-Diameter/dp/B09XCH4QVN?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A296NCMMFVXSDN&th=1

 

[howzz1854]

Thanks guys. 

quick question. For automatic movement, particularly this one. can I power down the main spring by pushing this rachet down? 

i've gotten pretty used to SW210 and powering down a manual movement. But so far i've only been waiting for the auto movement to run out of juice before opening the case. 

 

 

[VWatchie]

41 minutes ago, howzz1854 said:

For automatic movement, particularly this one. can I power down the main spring by pushing this rachet down? 

Hold the crown when in winding position, move the click away from the crown wheel, and then while holding the crown let it slowly unwind. I recollect that you must remove the automatic device bridge first, but maybe I'm wrong. You can first try without removing the automatic device bridge.

Edited March 28 by VWatchie

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, howzz1854 said:

For automatic movement, particularly this one. can I power down the main spring by pushing this rachet down? 

thinking about your movement I don't recall you giving us the movement number? I snipped out an image I can sort of read a C0 but not quite sure what the rest the number is so could you give us the exact number.

[howzz1854]

C07641+ not sure what the "+" is for after the last digit.

[JohnR725]

On 2/27/2024 at 12:35 PM, howzz1854 said:

Hamilton Khaki Aviation Day Date Auto H64615135 with the Powermatic 80 movement. 

just as a reminder this watch is a Swatch group product. This will bring up a problem like spare parts and technical information.

that I found some links to some information on when I talk about your watch and some of the technical and basically your watch is equivalent to 2834-2 for which I'm attaching the technical sheets. But equivalent does not mean exactly the same you want to do a search on the group for C07 as we discussed this watch before including the technical differences how it's supposed to be regulated and basically because it's watch group there is no parts availability.

https://calibercorner.com/eta-caliber-c07-xxx/

 

https://www.chrono24.com/magazine/eta-movements-from-the-2824-2-to-the-powermatic-80-p_80840/

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/h-10-movement-details.4636991/

eta CT_2834-2_FDE_481857_15.pdf

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 3/28/2024 at 6:32 AM, JohnR725 said:

Which is why someplace out there that used to be a website urging consumers not to purchase watches from specific brands that would not let you service your own watch I don't know if that website is still out there?

That sounds like a really good website