I never expected that - crazy stuff.

[hofnerpres]

Among all this serious discussion I would like to create a thread where we all can post the humerous and interesting disasters and crazy stuff that goes on when battling with old watches. Naturally nothing goes wrong with my work but here's a couple of starters that hit me this week.

Even with the correct tools, mainspring work can get creative...And do you think the previous watch repair person had any trouble with the balance end shake -? Maybe a shaky hand problem or a frustrated engraver

[RichardHarris123]

I've seen worst hairsprings, hehe. 

[rehajm]

…okay, I’m not certain I have the gist of this but I’ll give it a go…Omega miltary I cracked open last summer…

Glorious, right? Well, inside…

…yes that’s a round stud in a triangular hole. You can’t see from the pics but the timing pins are raked about as far forward as they will go to get it to time. Trouble is, it works! A new mainspring and turned the roller a bit to get an acceptable beat error. I’m afraid to mess with it to make it right…

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, hofnerpres said:

Among all this serious discussion I would like to create a thread where we all can post the humerous and interesting disasters and crazy stuff that goes on when battling with old watches. Naturally nothing goes wrong with my work but here's a couple of starters that hit me this week.

Even with the correct tools, mainspring work can get creative...And do you think the previous watch repair person had any trouble with the balance end shake -? Maybe a shaky hand problem or a frustrated engraver

Matey i could be wrong here,and maybe your winders work differently to mine,but I'm fairly certain the mainspring is supposed to be wound into the winder barrel not wrapped around the handle. Of course if this is a new technique that you're developing then by all means ignore my response.

49 minutes ago, rehajm said:

…okay, I’m not certain I have the gist of this but I’ll give it a go…Omega miltary I cracked open last summer…

Glorious, right? Well, inside…

…yes that’s a round stud in a triangular hole. You can’t see from the pics but the timing pins are raked about as far forward as they will go to get it to time. Trouble is, it works! A new mainspring and turned the roller a bit to get an acceptable beat error. I’m afraid to mess with it to make it right…

I think the gist of it is, stop being grumpy old men and own up to the stupid stuff we do. Which suits me right down to my boots. I think we actually have at least one thread already like this which goes to prove we do a lot of stupid stuff . So anyway rehajm nice DD you have there and if it ain't broke dont fix it. And never mind the stud that balance wheel isn't kosher either.

Edited January 18 by Neverenoughwatches

[rehajm]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

think the gist of it is, stop being grumpy old men and own up to the stupid stuff we do

The more you know…

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

So anyway rehajm nice DD you have there

You know…this is my watch but is it a DD? Speaking of stupid stuff old men do…how would I know?

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, rehajm said:

The more you know…

You know…this is my watch but is it a DD? Speaking of stupid stuff old men do…how would I know?

Well you have the movement 30T2 barring the right balance,and that dial looks very fresh indeed, but what about the case ?

[Waggy]

@hofnerpres with regards to the marks under the balance, I believe this is an old trick to shim the balance cock. A lot of USSR watches use thin brass/copper cutouts to do the same thing. Seems ludicrous that someone would permanently disfigure a customers watch like this, but I guess they assume that they will never see it, and what the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over.

In the past where I have been unable/unwilling to mess with the balance jewel end shake I have used normal aluminium kitchen foil under the balance cock to raise or lower it

Will keep an eye out for crazy watch stuff and post here!

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Matey i could be wrong here,and maybe your winders work differently to mine,but I'm fairly certain the mainspring is supposed to be wound into the winder barrel not wrapped around the handle. Of course if this is a new technique that you're developing then by all means ignore my response.

Must be a Seiko mainspring

Edited January 19 by Waggy

[oldhippy]

7 minutes ago, Waggy said:

@hofnerpres with regards to the marks under the balance, I believe this is an old trick to shim the balance cock. A lot of USSR watches use thin brass/copper cutouts to do the same thing. Seems ludicrous that someone would permanently disfigure a customers watch like this, but I guess they assume that they will never see it, and what the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over.

Will keep an eye out for crazy watch stuff and post here!

I have had many come to me that have had those little dig marks, as you say watchmakers as we call them did that a lot. As to the Russian rubbish to me it just showed how poor the movements were. How the hell did they send rockets to the moon. 

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

As to the Russian rubbish to me it just showed how poor the movements were.

Obviously, non-Russian movements can be "rubbish" too as no brass shims are provided and the watchmaker must do permanent damage to the main plate under the balance cock to adjust the end-shake. In that light to me, a brass shim seems to be a pretty smart and practical solution. Also, let's not forget that the goal of the Soviets - and just to make sure, a terrible totalitarian dictatorship - was not to provide precision timepieces to a capitalist market but timekeeping to the masses, and as far as I can tell they did a pretty good job at that.

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

How the hell did they send rockets to the moon.

Just as the West, by using science and determination. Yes, after decades of propaganda, it may sound strange, but Russians are human too.

Edited January 19 by VWatchie

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

How the hell did they send rockets to the moon.

I don't think the Russians ever landed on the moon. There are some people who think the Americans too. They have conspiracy theories that claim that the moon landings were all a hoax. They were all staged in some secret warehouse.

[VWatchie]

5 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I don't think the Russians ever landed on the moon. There are some people who think the Americans too. They have conspiracy theories that claim that the moon landings were all a hoax. They were all staged in some secret warehouse.

Oh, the Russians sent rockets to the moon!

"12 September 1959: The USSR launches Luna 2 and accomplishes its mission of creating the first spacecraft to reach the surface of the Moon. 4 October 1959: The USSR launches Luna 3 and succeeds in their mission of sending an object into orbit around the Moon and photographing the far side of the Moon."

Well, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the US moon landing in reality was a warehouse landing! 

Edited January 19 by VWatchie

[HectorLooi]

Was that a landing or a crash?

The truth will be out when the Chinese land their probe on the moon.

Maybe that's why the Americans are trying to start a war with them.

[VWatchie]

2 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Maybe that's why the Americans are trying to start a war with them.

Yes, the war drums are loud and clear. Military US cargo planes are now landing in the north of Sweden daily (not officially reported, but I have other reliable sources) and my soon-to-be 18-year-old daughter has been drafted. Luckily, she is in Japan and if need be I'll try to send her to our relatives in the Philippines once her visa expires.

[Endeavor]

Soviets:

First satellite; Sputnik

First dog in Space: Laika

First man in space: Yuri Gagarin

First Space-walk: Alexei Leonov

First woman in Space: Valentina Tereshkova

First moon rover: Lunokhod 1

The spacecraft "Buran" flew completely remote controlled and had a much higher pay-load capacity than its US counterpart.

Despite all the Western propaganda & chest banging, the Soviets were doing better

 

[oldhippy]

What you have failed to say this applies to both the U S S R & U S A is it was manly German scientist from the second world war that had the skills. I will let you have a few comments then can we get back on track please members. 

[rehajm]

11 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Well you have the movement 30T2 barring the right balance,and that dial looks very fresh indeed, but what about the case ?

…the case looks in condition consistent with the dial, inconsistent with the state of the movement…

…I waver between franken and not- ‘incoherent’ cartainly comes to mind. The 30T2 is so durable, so many were made and there are so many still out there perhaps anything goes.

More confusing to me- the Omega DD in my avatar is perhaps the opposite of this one- dial and hands show age but the movement could be fresh from the factoy…

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, rehajm said:

…the case looks in condition consistent with the dial, inconsistent with the state of the movement…

…I waver between franken and not- ‘incoherent’ cartainly comes to mind. The 30T2 is so durable, so many were made and there are so many still out there perhaps anything goes.

More confusing to me- the Omega DD in my avatar is perhaps the opposite of this one- dial and hands show age but the movement could be fresh from the factoy…

What say the caseback? 

[rehajm]

38 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What say the caseback? 

Serial number but no 'Y' number. The avatar model has a 'Y' number, presumably a sequential indicator?

[KarlvonKoln]

Having a lathe, I think I know of an easier way to correct end-shake, should all other methods fail.  I also dislike finding little dig-in marks under the cock.  But another thing I saw, which I have a little more respect for, was when I found dial washers perfectly fitted to the steady pins.  No damage to the plate or cock; easily undone by another watchmaker, and yet if the repair person had no lathe it was probably the best thing he could do.

As to other crazy stuff I've seen: I have no pics, but pics would not convey the amount of dismay I felt when I opened the Elgin grade 241 that my brother brought me to work upon.  Others here may remember me ranting about it.  Some former owner drenched the movement in Cosmoline (greasy, sticky, petroleum-based stuff used to coat weapons and other metal objects, to prevent rust during long-term storage).  The dude either sprayed the Cosmoline everywhere in there, or just dunked it.  The ideal solvent to remove Cosmoline is IPA.  So of course I had to use something else to clean the balance and lever, and that took some time.  Heck, even on the other parts, using the IPA took forever too.  I have to wonder what some people are thinking, when the just soak a watch movement in some random preservative that they *think* might be good for it, then have the nerve to wonder why it stops altogether.  That was the longest watch cleaning I ever did.

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, rehajm said:

Serial number but no 'Y' number. The avatar model has a 'Y' number, presumably a sequential indicator?

Yes Y is the code letter for the Omega DD. Does it have the WWW designation?  What removal tool style is the screw on back ?

[rehajm]

19 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yes Y is the code letter for the Omega DD. Does it have the WWW designation?  What removal tool style is the screw on back ?

lemme get a pic, wil take a bit.  I'm interested in your thoughts...here.

My guess is if not a franken creation maybe stock what never made it to service? Or an unused case paired with dial of same and an old movement…I’ve read of Rollie doing such things…

Edited January 19 by rehajm

[oldhippy]

The luminous paint on the minute hand looks as if it has been applied by someone with an unsteady hand.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

22 minutes ago, rehajm said:

lemme get a pic, wil take a bit.  I'm interested in your thoughts...here.

My guess is if not a franken creation maybe stock what never made it to service? Or an unused case paired with dial of same and an old movement…I’ve read of Rollie doing such things…

the back looks rough tbh, this is my record with a recall for radium dial and hands decommission, replaced with  nato stores equivalent.  Any www back i have seen is or was polished, i would bet money the back is not original. The dial could be old stock but something is niggling me. 

41 minutes ago, rehajm said:

lemme get a pic, wil take a bit.  I'm interested in your thoughts...here.

My guess is if not a franken creation maybe stock what never made it to service? Or an unused case paired with dial of same and an old movement…I’ve read of Rollie doing such things…

 

41 minutes ago, rehajm said:

lemme get a pic, wil take a bit.  I'm interested in your thoughts...here.

My guess is if not a franken creation maybe stock what never made it to service? Or an unused case paired with dial of same and an old movement…I’ve read of Rollie doing such things…

It was niggling me just looked at half a dozen examples and the 12 numerals are too close together. Its posible that after over 25,000 produced there could be some discrepancy on the dial. There should be lots of engraving on the backside of the caseback ? I think there should also be a letter code on the case itself, on one of the lugs.

[rehajm]

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

I also dislike finding little dig-in marks under the cock.

It's offensive. I hate it but I do know what's happening in the watch.  I've learned about a custom balance staff the hard way, after much time and expense 

[rehajm]

Here's two for inspection...

 

...part of the challenge is there were so many variants- replacements and originals. What's the 'standard' IWC dial I wonder?

Edited January 19 by rehajm