Waltham 1873

[Murks]

 A got another question no one will probable answe anyway but I'm working on this movement waltham 1873 but the upper and lower balance jewel are damaged can I fit a normal jewel in this type movement or do you have to buy the hole bush with the jewel fitted that comes with the jewel i mean the original part? 

Edited January 6 by Murks

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Murks said:

 A got another question no one will probable answe anyway but I'm working on this movement waltham 1873 but the upper and lower balance jewel are damaged can I fit a normal jewel in this type movement or do you have to buy the hole bush with the jewel fitted that comes with the jewel i mean the original part? 

Pictures murks, pictures are almost always needed. There be folk that dont know what this movement is.

[Murks]

I know you said picture but sometimes when add pictures a don't get any respond so what can I do check the last comment a wrote that was nearly 7 hours ago with a picture everything but still no one yet to respond my question

That's why a keep doing mistakes because sometimes people don't respond so a try it my self and a mess up 

[Neverenoughwatches]

48 minutes ago, Murks said:

I know you said picture but sometimes when add pictures a don't get any respond so what can I do check the last comment a wrote that was nearly 7 hours ago with a picture everything but still no one yet to respond my question

That's why a keep doing mistakes because sometimes people don't respond so a try it my self and a mess up 

Questions are not always picked up first time murks, just keep posting till someone answers. But pictures are nearly always needed unless its just a general enquirly. One reason is your question might need someone advanced or watch specific to answer and they may not be available.  As an example i never answer anything clock related as i have next to no knowledge in that area, also very rarely seiko questions or pocket watch questions. My knowledge lays mostly with vintage mechanical wristwatch  era 30s -70s , Brand history, tool related , making tools, general all watch related issues and a little quartz knowledge.  This is what interests me at this time, but sometimes you just need to be patient for the right person to answer. 

[Murks]

A hear that thanks for the advice 

[Neverenoughwatches]

20 minutes ago, Murks said:

A hear that thanks for the advice 

 Looks like you are dealing with rubbed-in jewels or rubbed-into bushes and pressed in. Someone like JohnR725 or old hippy could answer your question. To be honest if you are looking for that buzz of a movement coming to life, you are choosing the wrong kind of watches. Too old , too  broken and lack of replacements. These are difficult to work with murks, they are guys here with 5+ years experience that wouldn't attempt this kind of repair. I applaud your bravery indeed,  i tried something equally as difficult last week. I wasn't expecting a good outcome and it wasn't but i wanted to test myelf and i did learn from the experience,  so i do get where you are coming from if thats your reasoning to try this repair.

[JohnR725]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:21 AM, Murks said:

know you said picture but sometimes when add pictures a don't get any respond so what can I do check the last comment a wrote that was nearly 7 hours ago with a picture everything but still no one yet to respond my question

That's why a keep doing mistakes because sometimes people don't respond so a try it my self and a mess up

the run into several problems with some of your questions like people answering the questions are all across the planet. So while your question is burning in your mind that this particular second some of us might be asleep. Then there's the other problem this group is based in the UK where you're located and that appears to be an American pocket watch? Although both Waltham and Elgin exported quite a few watches to the UK and other parts of the world. But still American pocket watches is not exactly the thing of this group so getting clear answers is problematic at times

On 1/6/2024 at 9:50 AM, Murks said:

waltham 1873

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/2125977

yes you did get the model but I do like the look at the pocketwatch database unfortunately it sucks for Waltham parts CF to go to a physical book. Or in this case a PDF.

On 1/6/2024 at 9:50 AM, Murks said:

the upper and lower balance jewel are damaged can I fit a normal jewel in this type movement or do you have to buy the hole bush with the jewel fitted that comes with the jewel i mean the original part? 

oh I'm a bit confused by your pictures because you can remove the jewels. Two screws on each plate and in the jewels will push out usually their frictions in but they will push out as you can see your hole jewel and what you're dealing with. If there is enough brass in the hole jewel assembly you can smash the old jewel or get it out of your way and put a modern jewel in its place. Sometimes frowned upon by obsessed people that think you should burnish the jewel back in but nobody's going to see it works fine just to put a modern jewel in. But often times there isn't enough brass because of the way it was originally put in with the setting

I suppose you to try to put a modern jewel in but the diameter is going to be so huge. The other way to do this is if you had a watchmaker's lathe you would just make an entirely new setting for your new jewel.

then looking in the parts catalog we get parts numbers sort of I don't suppose you know what hole size you need?

then my usual reference for balance jewels only shows one of them? Although it does look like a eight size is odd which brings up a course a problem of finding parts for watches that were made a very long time ago and not necessarily huge quantities

but this does bring up and shows a problem of if you try to bypass the setting you would need a jewel of at least 2.03 mm in diameter and balance jewels I don't know how big the tools go but that's a really big jewel. So the best would be to see if you can you replace the tool itself for the modern jewel with the brass setting you already have

somewhere in the US they used it company that's all the balance jewels but I can't remember who were aware that is and the other place to try is Dave's watch parts you might have which you need if you want to buy the original jewel to be the best

but for now to get a better idea of things why don't you take your balance jewels out there a little hard to see when they're in the watch with the end stones in place

 

then I found the company that was making the balance jewel assemblies they don't seem to have yours but you can email an inquiry

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=qbstuff&store_name=americanpocketwatchjewels

 

[Murks]

Thanks alot it worked with the way you should me appreciate I am starting to understand most things now not doing the same mistakes thank you.

[Waggy]

35 minutes ago, Murks said:

I am starting to understand most things now not doing the same mistakes thank you.

We are all learning, I even see @oldhippy constantly commenting that he just learned something. Have you tried Marks courses here on this web site, I did all 3 and got something out of each course. What have you done to learn so far so we can best advise?

PS

Don't mean to sound patronising, just want to help you in your journey 

PPS

I know there is an additional course I haven't done yet (chronographs). Saving my pennies to sign up!

[Murks]

Have done marks course the watch repair course all levels I'm now doing the chronograph course 

[watchweasol]

Hi Murks,   The watches you have problems with are the ones that need more specialist knowledge for example the one you had with the jewel problem. Unless some one like John 725 picks it up or some one who has been there and done it your responses will be low or not at all.  John725 is the knowledge base on vintage watches as that is what he does professionally so the information is always good.  The essence is Murks please be patient and if your post gets lost then re post .  What we do here is to help people over problems as best we can, so rest assured we are here to do just that. Try as we might we don’t know all the answers but collectively we come pretty close.  Good luck with your present project.

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Waggy said:

constantly commenting that he just learned something

my comments on this is watchmakers are learning like doctors or basically we are practicing. Every single watch we practice and hopefully we get better. Unfortunately when working on vintage sometimes it is several steps backwards before you can go forward again. in other words vintage is a specialty and even with specialty knowledge they can be quite annoying.

12 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

lease be patient and if your post gets lost then re post

one of the problems with the message board being fragmented in the so many sections is I've changed how I do things. t used to be I just go into the main folder I go down the list I'm looking for anything that hadn't been answered or anything that looked interesting. Now that were fragmented in the thousands of categories I just ask for all the unread messages in other words have I read it or not. Then I look at the titles to see if it looks interesting. But of course this means I'm not going to see everything. So things will fall through the cracks.

Oh and just a reminder for vintage especially vintage American which has parts books we can look up your parts we can see what they are it's an exact science of insanity. Yes you probably weren't expecting to see the word insanity? This is because there tends to be lots of variations.

for instance I know someone who did a project where they needed a whole bunch of identical 12 size watches that were affordable. So they picked a particular 12 size Illinois watch because according to the parts book all the parts are identical in other words there are no variations over its life span. Except the parts book was printed before they finished the run and there were variations lots of variations. I was looking for a balance jewel and had to cannibalize quite a few movements to find the balance jewels for the particular movement I was trying to fix for instance

here's an example of part number problems. Or why part numbers are not necessarily an exact science or why is it I ordered by a part number and I didn't get what I expected. This comes out a book that lists American balance staffs printed long after all the American watch companies quit making pocket watches. So were looking at the 18 size Elgin 857 balance staff. One balance staff number but how many separate balance staffs you see? Four different types or sizes for variations and then a course a whole bunch of different pivots sizes.

in other words here's the problem of vintage they can be really beautiful and spectacular when the watches running but getting it back to running condition be quite a challenge with variations of parts that may or may not be listed in the books. People before you than a plate with the watch who decided for whatever reason to change things because I guess they could or adjust things because they could or all sorts of bad things. Which is another reason why vintage is a challenge.

[CYCLOPS]

I would find a replacement from a material house or a donor, a new jewel of the correct size and shape could be made to work but would be a lot of work and certain tools would have to be used.