Timegrapher Question - Jumping Line

[JustinM]

Greetings! Excited to join the Forums. 
I have been a watch enthusiast for years but just started learning watch repairing recently. So I guess here is the right place for me to ask newbie’s questions.

I have an affordable timegrapher, Weishi 1900. I check my own watches periodically using this machine, and also use it for watch repair exercises of course. I have seen wavy lines, full screen of scattered dots and a couple of other patterns on my timegrapher, but I never understood this pattern(picture attached below).

You probably already noticed, one of the two lines is jumping up and down. The “dropped dots” almost formed a third line. I am so confused what does this pattern indicate?

A bit additional info, this watch is one of those that I put on timegrapher from time to time. And I haven’t seen this kind of reading on this watch before. Also, the reading was totally fine when the watch was on dial up position when I checked a few minutes ago(picture attached below). I have realized that the weird jump line only appears when the watch is on vertical positions(crown right and crown down mostly).

Any idea will be appreciated! Hopefully this question isn’t stupid:-)

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome. 

[rossjackson01]

Hello and Welcome. A good post. Looking forward to the replies from knowledgeable members.

[Waggy]

Looks like this could be your issue?

[Kalanag]

…or this?

witschi training course

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Kalanag

[Waggy]

13 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

…or this?

Could be, but the amplitude is only 230° when it is happening which is why I didn't flag it as the prime suspect, and gravity seems to be influencing it, which is why I homed in on the balance system. However, you could well be right and this is certainly worth looking at as part of the troubleshooting process. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

…or this?

witschi training course 4.62 MB · 5 downloads

 

That looks to be an additional noise as the 2 traces from the escapement are complete.  Whereas on justin's the pattern is being pulled from entry jewel trace, like the oscillations are unequal at different points.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 11/5/2023 at 5:58 AM, JustinM said:

Greetings! Excited to join the Forums. 
I have been a watch enthusiast for years but just started learning watch repairing recently. So I guess here is the right place for me to ask newbie’s questions.

I have an affordable timegrapher, Weishi 1900. I check my own watches periodically using this machine, and also use it for watch repair exercises of course. I have seen wavy lines, full screen of scattered dots and a couple of other patterns on my timegrapher, but I never understood this pattern(picture attached below).

You probably already noticed, one of the two lines is jumping up and down. The “dropped dots” almost formed a third line. I am so confused what does this pattern indicate?

A bit additional info, this watch is one of those that I put on timegrapher from time to time. And I haven’t seen this kind of reading on this watch before. Also, the reading was totally fine when the watch was on dial up position when I checked a few minutes ago(picture attached below). I have realized that the weird jump line only appears when the watch is on vertical positions(crown right and crown down mostly).

Any idea will be appreciated! Hopefully this question isn’t stupid:-)

If the bad trace is from a vertical position , could it be a poising issue ? the beat error is occasionally jumping way up almost to an overlap.

[praezis]

This question was asked multiple times here …

Reason is usually a faint 1st pulse of the tic noise that is missed by the TM now and then. The TM will fetch and print the next higher pulse (usually 3 in one tic noise). 

This can mean an escapement issue (e.g. too small drop lock) but most times just an audio issue, the TM has problems to recognize a quiet pulse #1.

It is not a touching hairspring (random dots!).

It is not knocking (which in real looks very different from the posted picture).

Frank

 

[RickTock]

3 hours ago, praezis said:

This question was asked multiple times here …

Reason is usually a faint 1st pulse of the tic noise that is missed by the TM now and then. The TM will fetch and print the next higher pulse (usually 3 in one tic noise). 

This can mean an escapement issue (e.g. too small drop lock) but most times just an audio issue, the TM has problems to recognize a quiet pulse #1.

It is not a touching hairspring (random dots!).

It is not knocking (which in real looks very different from the posted picture).

Frank

 

@JustinMBased on Frank's advice I wonder if you can tune out this anomaly by adjusting the gain?

[JohnR725]

On 11/7/2023 at 5:17 AM, praezis said:

Reason is usually a faint 1st pulse of the tic noise that is missed by the TM now and then. The TM will fetch and print the next higher pulse (usually 3 in one tic noise). 

Yes the problems of getting a nice clean signal and what happens if you do not.

For instance starting with the basics of fuzzy picture but do I see the crown the facing in the wrong direction? It doesn't always work that usually the crown should face the other way as you can get a better signal sometimes

For instance something out of the PDF found below

 

One of the problems with timing watches in a case is depending upon how heavy the case is or how the watches mounted in the case of a lot of times you will not get a clean signal and no get peculiar results. It also depends upon the particular timing machine and or device and how well it processes's.

For instance I find the very expensive witschi machine at work sometimes doesn't like Seiko watches or even or a heavy Rolex watch. Fortunately it has in our oscilloscope so I can look and see where it thinks the signals are supposed to be and I can see what I'm getting goofy results.

Sometimes if you're really concerned it would be best to remove the movement from the case and find that everything is probably just fine. Or if you're servicing a watch this is why you'd like to ideally evaluate the watch before you even put the hands Dial and definitely before it gets in the case. Just to make sure you're not having any problems before it's all case top be surprised.

 

8643_WI_81 BASIC CHECKS AND SETTINGS OF A MECHANICAL WATCH_EN cousins UK.pdf

[VWatchie]

@JustinM

I think this post might answer your question.