List of recommended start up tools needed please for a noob

[dazzystar]

Hi All,

As the topic suggests, I'm looking for a list of the essential tools in watch restoration / repair rather than a comprehensive, nice to have, list as I'm not certain yet if this hobby will take a firm grip!

I'd obviously spend money on decent tools if required but would rather not have to buy all Bergeon / Horotec ones unless 100% necessary / recommended. On the flip side of this, I'd rather not buy the cheap, crap from Amazon or eBay if they will cause more frustration.

Many thanks

Daz

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, dazzystar said:

Hi All,

As the topic suggests, I'm looking for a list of the essential tools in watch restoration / repair rather than a comprehensive, nice to have, list as I'm not certain yet if this hobby will take a firm grip!

I'd obviously spend money on decent tools if required but would rather not have to buy all Bergeon / Horotec ones unless 100% necessary / recommended. On the flip side of this, I'd rather not buy the cheap, crap from Amazon or eBay if they will cause more frustration.

Many thanks

Daz

 

Eyup dazzy. If you tap the 3 bars at the top right then scroll down to resources, an essential day 1 list of tools will show. 

[mikepilk]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 If you tap the 3 bars at the top right then scroll down to resources,

Nope, got me stumped there. "3 bars" ?  You been on the drink again 

Ah, got it.  Put the cursor over "Resources",   top left, and the menu below appears.

I never spotted that.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

"3 bars" ? 

Haha these days it would only take one bar and i would be flat on my back. 3 horizontal bars for the drop down menu . I was being as specific or as vague as you like

[JohnR725]

46 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

  Put the cursor over "Resources",   top left, and the menu below appears.

I never spotted that.

 

I see you're still using the colors of insanity. For some of us we change the color scheme but it's kind of faint and if you're not using an ad blocker which goes against supporting the channel it means we get those colorful advertisements sometimes I wonder if they're part of the discussions a lot of times I don't even catch the images the first time through. Just like I didn't catch your image so here's what my image looks like

Oh you can change the colors of the group don't ask me how I couldn't stand the previous color at all so now I went to the other choice which is light colors. But sometimes the light colors kinda just disappeared I forget things are up there. Plus the advertisement sometimes are so much advertisement it's hard to tell the discussion from the advertisements. But something has to support the message board.

6 hours ago, dazzystar said:

As the topic suggests, I'm looking for a list of the essential tools in watch restoration / repair rather than a comprehensive, nice to have, list as I'm not certain yet if this hobby will take a firm grip!

You present challenges with your question and you don't give us enough to work with. It be nice to know a location on the planet as we could probably make some other recommendations. Then what exactly do you plan on working on? But since are a total newbie will solve that problem by I usually recommend a clone of the Swiss 6497 or 6498 watch. Clone made by the Chinese is a decent and much cheaper than the original Swiss. There are some brand-new running is really something good the start with C to understand what a running watch looks like and you understand what it looks like when it's not running because well sometimes those things happen we don't know how but mysteriously your watch doesn't run anymore. So if I restrict my answers to your going to purchase one of those that help slightly on the tool list.

6 hours ago, dazzystar said:

I'd obviously spend money on decent tools if required but would rather not have to buy all Bergeon / Horotec ones unless 100% necessary / recommended. On the flip side of this, I'd rather not buy the cheap, crap from Amazon or eBay if they will cause more frustration.

By the way this presents quite a challenge everybody here would like to purchase brand-new quality Swiss tools at a bargain price isn't going to happen unfortunately perhaps. We may bill the pick and choose stuff off of Amazon and definitely eBay especially eBay if you purchase used tools. There's other places out there were we can get used tools. Maybe some tools that are new perhaps but it does present quite a challenge here. Simplistically if you buy cheap tools they don't last it by good tools they hopefully should last forever but they can be expensive.

So to get your feet wet without going too expensive I'm going to assume you got purchased the Chinese clone movement. eason for this is it cuts down on your tools because the movement is not in a case that means you don't have to purchase any tools for opening up watch cases or anything related to removing the hands playing with the dial this cuts down on just tools to work on the movement just to get started the bare minimum

Oh and of course we get opinions. The universal main Tweezer that most people use is a number 2. Then even though he talks about the number five I only use it for hairspring work because I find it has a habit of making screws fly away. If you purchase a good quality tweezer ill basically last year a lifetime and even some of the inexpensive ones can be quite good.

Screwdrivers I think somewhere else on the group we were discussing that recently. Signed is to take the easy way out and attached a PDF. These were you get the peculiar problem of quality will last you for ever cheap you might as well throw in the trash but in between can be very usable. The French sets are  usually what people purchase.

Now a skim them through a lot of the list can not dealing with the case need something to blow with. You get a round ball like thing with the nozzle on it that should be relatively cheap even on Amazon where it doesn't really matter.

Movement holder that's an absolute must.

Something to see with this really opens up a can of worms and then you get the dump them over your head. Unless a course or gummy worms which I find rather nice. A lot of people won't even touch a watch unless they have a microscope now and getting used to the loop can be interesting but it definitely need something to see with. Because yes brace yourself watches can be really tiny. That's something that often comes up from people watch YouTube videos where everything looks nice and big and then they go to work on the watch they discover it's tiny and the screws are really tiny and some stuff in the watches even tinier than other stuff.

Oil pots or cups. The plastic ones will work fine you like catch to the plastic ones are is one that has three a made out of plastic the problem is your oil or can scrape the plastic yet plastic flakes but it's cheap you can throw it away if you decide you like watch repair and by something better. Personally I prefer glass and most of  the cups I purchased were used off of eBay. Because I really didn't like anything else that was new I just found something I liked and bought those and then if you really have lots of money get oil cups made out of agates impress your friends. Oh and my particular case I do like separate cups I don't like the unit that has a whole bunch a cups with nice little blitzes I like to move the oil pup is close to the watches I can get it makes it a lot easier to see what I'm doing.

He didn't spend enough time with the Oilers oh dear how sad. People can get quite obsessed with the Oilers the shapes the brands who made them. Just because they come from expensive company does not mean you're going to get a nice boiler that you're going to like. Then the color coding is not necessarily universal.

Was looking for Oilers images found some other images some just going to attach them for instance oil cup this is typically the one that everyone buys supercheap feel like it you can throw it away at no loss

For oil cups here's the modern equivalent of what I have. The older ones used originally have turned wood base and a wooden lid then later on their own plastic ones I got off of eBay were all would with glass inserts this is the modern equivalent from one of the companies you don't want to purchase from but maybe you could find something cloned but for now I just go with the plastic thing up above and be done with it

Now here's where the fun begins the Oilers themselves inexpensive is just fine this thing I find most important is the shape of the tip but you can't always tell online which are getting. Then some of the really expensive ones have been manufactured with very specific tips

Oh and I suppose technically if you just want to get your feet wet you don't need any oil Oilers or the cups. In other words you by the Chinese clone movement taken apart put it back together to see if you even want to do this then don't even get the Oilers at all. Trying to go super minimalistic.

Then of course if you buy oil supplies you probably need oil. So I'm just assume we don't feed the oil of the cups at all because you're not going to get them initially is enough to get you started.

 

 

 

BHI September 2008 Screwdrivers.PDF

[Galilea]

I am new and am finding the classes very helpful. The first thing covered include a tools list, and I find it is very relevant because they also show you how to use them. The list of tools increases with one's learned skills.

[dazzystar]

Thanks for the replies people. Now I need to find microscope reviews as I wear glasses and don't want this to let me down. Seems most people use Amscope.

[tomh207]

11 hours ago, dazzystar said:

Thanks for the replies people. Now I need to find microscope reviews as I wear glasses and don't want this to let me down. Seems most people use Amscope.

Chronoglide YouTube channel just posted a 2 part series on microscopes for watchmakers, could be a good starting point.

also Alex on the watch repair tutorials channel did one too.

 

Tom

[JohnR725]

23 hours ago, dazzystar said:

Now I need to find microscope reviews as I wear glasses and don't want this to let me down.

 

On 7/29/2023 at 1:53 AM, dazzystar said:

I'm looking for a list of the essential tools in watch restoration / repair rather than a comprehensive, nice to have, list as I'm not certain yet if this hobby will take a firm grip

I'm a bit confused here?  thought you were going for the super minimalistic list and now you need a microscope? Did you know they make magnifying glasses that clip on glasses? Although depending upon your frame size they can range from being really nice to Basically if you change your glasses frames the ability to hold nicely becomes a pain but still they didn't make such a thing that goes on glasses and it is a tiny bit cheaper than a microscope.

[oldhippy]

If you wear glasses you can get a clip on loop. This is the sort of thing, there are many different types around.

[dazzystar]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

 

I'm a bit confused here?  thought you were going for the super minimalistic list and now you need a microscope? Did you know they make magnifying glasses that clip on glasses? Although depending upon your frame size they can range from being really nice to Basically if you change your glasses frames the ability to hold nicely becomes a pain but still they didn't make such a thing that goes on glasses and it is a tiny bit cheaper than a microscope.

Yes but I know that even if I don't find that I'm enjoying the hobby I can always sell it on eBay but get your point.

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 minutes ago, dazzystar said:

Yes but I know that even if I don't find that I'm enjoying the hobby I can always sell it on eBay but get your point.

A microscope is usually a later addition when you know you are sticking with the hobby. But as Alex says in the video it is a game changer. I did buy something that i think john is suggesting. Its a little like a pair of mini binoculars that clip onto glasses. Dentists use them, i never use them but i should dig them out and have another play. They are a little clumbersome and the working distance seems too far tbh. These are the type.

27 minutes ago, dazzystar said:

Yes but I know that even if I don't find that I'm enjoying the hobby I can always sell it on eBay but get your point.

Be careful with the non adjustable magnification ones. They are fixed according to lens magnification, and only come in x10 and x20 mag. X 10 is too high giving only a field of view of around 15mm, so it wont fit in a full average mans size movement. I managed to aquire x5 mag lenses but for some reason the field of view didn’t change. I still use it though and find it ok but i have other things for visuals as well that are better.

[everyonesdesign]

Microscope is perfect for watchmaking, but relatively costly. I think that lately there's been a shift towards using microscopes (probably also because they got cheaper overall), but interestingly, they don't look "watchmakery", I guess, hence in ads with "artisan watchmakers" characters you'll always still see humble loupes.

Even if you have a microscope you still would need some kind of loupes or similar devices for some types of work (e.g. it's tricky to look at things from the side through microscope — for cases/bracelets disassembly, in a jewel press, in a lathe, etc.).

There's also this kind of optivisors https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/optivisors-head-band-magnifiers . They seem to be popular, but I've never used them. Adam Savage also recommends them (he's not a watchmaker, but a maker of different kinds of stuff, sometimes minuscule).

Personally I have a microscope from Aliexpress I ordered a while ago (very similar to this one, but with a bigger table and a viewer for a camera), and it's really good. I have to say, though, that Aliexpress ordering is a bit of a lottery and things that come from there need to be thoroughly inspected.

 

 

BTW, note that using a microscope / loupe would require different sitting arrangements and take it into account when you plan your working space.

Using loupe for a prolonged time is more comfortable and natural with a high table. Using microscope would require a table closer to "standard" ones (i.e. dining tables), since you can keep the hands close to the table while the visors are located above.

In some cases for hobbyists purchasing a microscope would be a good financial choice because you can get away with a table you already have.

Edited July 31, 2023 by everyonesdesign
typo

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

But as Alex says in the video it is a game changer.

If you look at traditional watchmaking benches you'll notice that they're usually relatively tall. That so you can sit in your chair without being too low and look into the work. If you're doing your watch work where you're hunched over it's bad for your neck and back and looking straight down is bad if you're trying to assemble anything you cannot see looking straight down.

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Dentists use them,

Then dentist use a variety of things. The dentist that I used to have before she retired had something optically bonded to her glasses. They were actually made by an optics company for her prescription. The dental hygienist was really happy one day when she had a pair complements of the dentist. hen unfortunately I remember there were very expensive don't remember the exact number somewhere close to 1000 I think would be close

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

X 10 is too high giving only a field of view of around 15mm

Then unfortunately we have a classic optical problem and money. Ideally you should be able to look at the entire watch seen it magnification not a lot. Although occasionally magnification is nice to look at specific things. Then you need a decent working distance to get your tweezers screwdrivers what ever underneath ro work on the watch. The problem is to get all the things you ideally want well I would recommend you should look at Nikon they make really nice microscopes. I know someone who purchased one I've seen what they can do but how many people want to spend several thousand dollars for a microscope?

 

2 hours ago, dazzystar said:

Yes but I know that even if I don't find that I'm enjoying the hobby I can always sell it on eBay but get your point

The problem is I think this conflicts with your original question. I suppose maybe not but when you want to get your feet wet and were trying to find reasonable quality but reasonably inexpensive prices like buying used tools then purchasing a brand-new microscope seems to conflict with the original question.

Although I guess What you are really saying is that you've gone beyond the initial phase and you're now ready to get something bigger and better so we gone past the phase of what's the bare minimum you need. Next thing I know you'll be buying tools in yellow boxes oh dear

[Neverenoughwatches]

47 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

you look at traditional watchmaking benches you'll notice that they're usually relatively tall. That so you can sit in your chair without being too low and look into the work. If you're doing your watch work where you're hunched over it's bad for your neck and back and looking straight down is bad if you're trying to assemble anything you cannot see looking straight down.

Microscopes aren't perfect for everything and as everyonesdesign stated loupes are more convenient for side views when something has to be picked up or mounted and an overhead view might make that difficult. 

54 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Although I guess What you are really saying is that you've gone beyond the initial phase and you're now ready to get something bigger and better so we gone past the phase of what's the bare minimum you need. Next thing I know you'll be buying tools in yellow boxes oh dear

Ahh the dreaded Bergeon addiction, he can always sell his house and live in a fully kitted out watchmaker's van. Sounds like perfect bliss, no wife, no kids, no pets. Just you and watches

[HectorLooi]

I've used surgical loupes in my line of work for almost 20 years. Can't live without them. They cost me about $2000. Had to modify the design several times to suit my needs.

But surgical loupes are not really suitable for general watch repair. As @Neverenoughwatches stated, the working length is too long. The working length had to be about 12-16 inches long, depending on the users height. This working length was important for 2 reasons, to maintain good posture and to keep us out of the patient's face. 

But the surgical loupe is a game changer in dentistry. Previously, only middle aged dentist use them to compensate for deteriorating eyesight. But now, dental schools are starting off their students with loupes right from the start. Because you are only as good as what you are able to see.

Surgical microscopes are becoming more common in dentistry. If I had another 10 years of working life, I would have invested in a surgical microscope. Those things are really expensive. A low end setup us typically about $12000. Even a Chinese knockoff is about $4000.

But coming back to watchmaking, I had to dig up my surgical loupes a couple of days ago to setup the escapement in a grandmother clock. So, there is still a limited use for it. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I've used surgical loupes in my line of work for almost 20 years. Can't live without them. They cost me about $2000. Had to modify the design several times to suit my needs.

But surgical loupes are not really suitable for general watch repair. As @Neverenoughwatches stated, the working length is too long. The working length had to be about 12-16 inches long, depending on the users height. This working length was important for 2 reasons, to maintain good posture and to keep us out of the patient's face. 

But the surgical loupe is a game changer in dentistry. Previously, only middle aged dentist use them to compensate for deteriorating eyesight. But now, dental schools are starting off their students with loupes right from the start. Because you are only as good as what you are able to see.

Surgical microscopes are becoming more common in dentistry. If I had another 10 years of working life, I would have invested in a surgical microscope. Those things are really expensive. A low end setup us typically about $12000. Even a Chinese knockoff is about $4000.

But coming back to watchmaking, I had to dig up my surgical loupes a couple of days ago to setup the escapement in a grandmother clock. So, there is still a limited use for it. 

I tried to find one that had a closer working distance but they are all this length of 17 inches. I still haven't found a use for it yet, maybe polishing cases or clocks when i eventually get into them. The surgical scopes are amazing for watch repair. Working distance beneath them is perfect at aound 12 inches and doesn't change when flicking through the primary lenses for different magnifications. The booms are super smooth with additional counter balanced raising arms. The viewing also comes in from the side with an extra tilt adjustment. I can see where the cost comes in, i was actually thinking more like 20 k depending on the lens quality. This one made it to me, i think made sometime in the 60s the full unit made in West Germany by Zeiss it uses 6 fixed primary lenses, ive been searching for different eyepieces for ages but no luck yet. 

[Waggy]

11 hours ago, everyonesdesign said:

There's also this kind of optivisors

I use an optivisor, and highly recommended, especially if you get the loupe for it too. First time around I got the highest power version, but you had to be too close to the watch for it to be practical, so I opted for the version 5, which is x 2.5 I think (just ordered the replacement lens and switched it out). They quote the focal length for each strength, so pick which works for you. I had another kind of visor to start with, one with a light and quick change lenses, but after wearing for a while the weight of the batteries used for the light etc gave me a headache. Also I bumped it and the quick change lens quick-chenged itself into the floor and broke 

11 hours ago, everyonesdesign said:

BTW, note that using a microscope / loupe would require different sitting arrangements and take it into account when you plan your working space.

I looked on Amazon and got an an electric adjustable desk, this one:

As you can see they aren't as expensive as you might think, and you can adjust with mm accuracy by just pressing a switch to move between all the jobs you are doing. No more neck ache!

[oldhippy]

When it comes to your workbench and chair make sure it is for you, you need to be comfortable and have plenty of leg room. If your posture is wrong it can and cause harm. That is what happened to me I have spondylitis of the neck when I was 40 which is a long time ago I was told the wear in my neck resembled someone who was in there 70's. So just be careful. 

[Galilea]

Just catching this, might be moot by now, but hold up,@dazzystar, hard stop. Don’t buy an Amscope, and don’t try to reason out what to buy instead, because you won’t be able to. Why not? You cannot buy an Amscope because there is no such thing. It might seem like splitting hairs, but this distinction compounds significantly.

Amscope does not make any microscopes. Like many other brands you might be considering, it buys and rebrands microscopes made in China. What’s wrong with that?

·        Reason #1) House brand/rebranded Chinese optics are notoriously sub-standard.

·        Reason #2) Customer support and product documentation, is lacking. Since Amscope doesn’t make microscopes, it cannot and does not offer a meaningful level of customer support. Example: A brand-new Amscope microscope selling on Amazon for $1000 gets a 1.5 page set of instructions and a dead link for more. Yes, it might get better/different with the various products, but I haven’t seen that, and I’m not going to buy any to find out, either.

·        Reason #3) Myriad companies also selling the scopes Amscope offers makes informed buying impossible, see below.

The various system and devices like visors, digitals, surgical loupes, stereoscopes, watch maker microscopes and more types have surely been discussed here already. When it comes to buying any of them, please keep the landscape in mind.

Say we are talking about handheld digital microscopes offered on Amazon. That’s where a great many people start. Maybe $13 on the low end and $100 on the high. When placed side by side, the two scopes and everything in between look the same. Read the specs and still…very similar. Scrutinize the photos, read the reviews and ask for recommendations, and really, you won’t see much of a difference. Nobody can make the best decision when information is grossly lacking. It is very possible to get the exact same microscope for $13 and/or for $100, because of Reason #3 above.

This example can be recycled for other systems, like visors or stereoscopes. It’s bewildering. You can research it, price check it, get reviews, ask others, download specs and buy it, but chances are very high that you won’t get a good system.

I am writing this long post because I really want others to have a good system – a system that enhances the experience, accelerates the workflow, brings the “aha” to the party and pleases the user. On the flip side, nothing just fits, nothing is smooth, things slip and only come into focus briefly, sweat and condensation and other plagues can make a person swear the whole thing off, move to the next hail-Mary. I don’t want that for anyone.

I can’t tell you what to get but I can give some guidelines and tell you what I do. Forgive the generalizations, but my 30 years of professional experience with these systems is hard to synthesize here.

·        Don’t buy Chinese optics. Buy Japanese, German or Swiss… to keep it simple and real, let’s stick with these. The difference is in the glass and the finish.

·        Even if you can afford a brand-new high-end microscope, I would suggest you don’t if you are a beginner. Buy top quality but buy used and old, and buy cheaply. You might be trying out a few types.

·        I expect to have pies thrown at me for saying this but stay away from visors. Neither I nor anyone I have ever worked with has been able to get the danged tensioning adjusters on the headbands/straps to stay put and we have tried our best. That means things slip, which is compounded by the fact that one sweats anywhere straps contact skin. Furthermore, those interchangeable lenses and short working distance mean you will spend a great deal of time flipping things up and down, moving plates in an out, and wiping the sweat and sometimes condensation out of the way…then dealing with hathead once…. Just don’t, please.

·        Don’t buy on Amazon. While quality microscopes are available there, they will not come up in a search for microscopes. To get there, you’ll need to know the exact make and model you are looking for. If you knew what you wanted, I doubt you’d be reading this post, and you would not be looking on Amazon, because the prices are far too high.

Here is what I use. Disclaimers: I cannot anticipate what will work for you, and I don’t do the same things to my watches that I see other people here doing. Like, I don’t use a lathe, I don’t vibrate hairsprings and I don’t count the seconds in a year. But:

·        My digital daily driver microscope: Dino-Lite Premiere 4113, a Japanese handheld. I like all Dino-Lites. They do look like all the other handhelds, but they are not. I might not have tried every brand (or maybe I have) but Dino-Lite is my choice, light years ahead of the pack. The software alone would be worth the cost. Output is to a Surface Studio 2, which is a big desktop I cannot recommend highly enough.

·        My stand: I often just hold the Dino-Lite for quick looks. Or I tape it to anything handy for repetitive fixed focus work. The focal range is phenomenal, which gives me whatever working distance I want. If I need to vary the focus for whatever I am doing, I tape it to my Bulova 9020 (see next), and hijack that worthy stand.

·        My non-digital daily driver: A Bulova Microloupe 9020, for watch makers. Mine is magical. Despite the fact that a tenth of a turn on the focus knobs moves me from fuzzy to focused and back to fuzzy, and even though I am on my own with respect to illumination, I am addicted to that moment of focus, and keep it there for the session. It’s like dropping in from elsewhere, straight through the looking glass, instant clarity… perfection, really. I never fail to find my bliss there. Ahhhh.

Other notes: Stereosopes? Sure. Not daily, but they are handy. I again recommend buying used. Nippon Kogaku KK and what it became, Nikon, tops my list, and it’s what I use today. I also like AO, and sometimes old Swift. I like the models made in the 70s, generally speaking,

What does any or all of this cost? I am out of time, send a message if you have questions. But my setup above – exclusive of the surface 2 – cost me about $400. It takes me a long time to find what I want, I stay on top of auctions until a fluke or lucky day happens, but I am patient and wait for those killer buys. Good luck.

[HectorLooi]

 

8 hours ago, oldhippy said:

When it comes to your workbench and chair make sure it is for you, you need to be comfortable and have plenty of leg room. If your posture is wrong it can and cause harm. That is what happened to me I have spondylitis of the neck when I was 40 which is a long time ago I was told the wear in my neck resembled someone who was in there 70's. So just be careful. 

For anyone intending to spend long hours at the workbench, like aspiring watchmakers, don't take this advice lightly. 

As a dentist for 36 years, I can attest that bad posture can be detrimental to your health. At the age of 36, I was diagnosed with cervical, thoracic and lumbar spondylosis. It was only after many chiropractic sessions and back traction that my condition was managed. But it left me with reduced stamina and had to cut down my working hours. 

There were good days and bad. On days that the back was killing me, I was grumpy, irritable and bad tempered. If you find your dentist like me, please understand that it could be due to back pains and mercury poisoning.

17 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I tried to find one that had a closer working distance but they are all this length of 17 inches.

@Neverenoughwatches, If you wear a pair of overpowered reading glasses beneath your loupes, you can reduce the working distance by a few inches.

Edited August 2, 2023 by HectorLooi
Typo

[JohnR725]

18 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

For anyone intending to spend long hours at the workbench, like aspiring watchmakers, don't take this advice lightly. 

when I went to school in Switzerland the school did not have the nifty modern benches like it does today I just had a long countertop along the window. This meant your seating height was determined by your chair. So initially whatever chair was where you were was what you had. Until the instructor took one look at me and had a little issue and gave a nice little talk about the consequences of bad posture. He didn't even get around to discussing the ultimate pain that it would caucus. So we did some chair swapping so that I could sit and look into the work rather than look hunched over and down work.

So yes often overlooked is poor posture and the consequences of that over time.

18 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

As a dentist for 36 years, I can attest that bad posture can be detrimental to your health.

unfortunately and dentistry a lot of things can be bad for your health. One of the dentist I had had to retire because she got carpal tunnel syndrome I think that's what it was called and basically she couldn't user hands anymore. Which is really sad because I thought she was the most outstanding dentist I ever had.

[Galilea]

14 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

dentistry a lot of things can be bad for your health. One of the dentist I had had to retire because she got carpal tunnel syndrome I think that's what it was called and basically she couldn't user hands anymore. Which is really sad because I thought she was the most outstanding dentist I ever had.

News to me, and that would explain why some of my dentists were trying to swing a new revenue stream. Once a dentist of mine put one foot on my chair in order to gain stability and leverage while aggressively pulling a stubborn wisdom tooth. He ended up falling and crashing and had to go to the hospital for his injuries, that's another thing that can happen to dentists. Then there is the pain they inflict, some might fight back, I don't know. I thought it was a safe profession but seems it is not.

I think it is so cool that you studied on Switzerland, John, what did you think of the food, and did you learn any of the language?

[JohnR725]

4 minutes ago, Galilea said:

Then there is the pain they inflict, some might fight back, I don't know. I thought it was a safe profession but seems it is not.

safe profession? I'm not sure the psychological factor this but I'll make a guess dentists are up close and personal with their patients in other words there in your face they can see your face. If your faces screaming I'm in pain I am in agony the dentist sees that. Versus other doctors who may run into the room look at you for two seconds and be gone. If you look up the suicide rate of medical people dentistry I believe is the number one.

 

[Galilea]

26 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

safe profession? I'm not sure the psychological factor this but I'll make a guess dentists are up close and personal with their patients in other words there in your face they can see your face. If your faces screaming I'm in pain I am in agony the dentist sees that. Versus other doctors who may run into the room look at you for two seconds and be gone. If you look up the suicide rate of medical people dentistry I believe is the number one.

 

I might look it up, but it is not essential to this conversation. I see what you are saying. I once used to pass a dental office on my way to my studio every day. It was Dr. Pain, DDS. Now there's a man who embraced his birth circumstance.