Do Bergeon out source their tool production to China

[valleyguy]

I've seen  a 3 pc set of tools on ali that i'm sure are genuine bergeon, i've looked at the photo on bergeons site and compared it side by side with the ali picture of the tools, i can't tell the difference in the tools, it as the bergeon reference number on the ali listing and box but a chinese brand name, do Bergeon get any tools made in China or are they just good fakes.

Edited February 13, 2023 by valleyguy

[watchweasol]

Hi if they do you would never find out, The Chinese tool manufacturers are getting better and in a lot of cases hard to fault although quality let’s them down sometimes.      Cheers

 

[Paul80]

Having worked in production engineering for years I can say absolutely yes, not everything but many of their tools are too identical to the Chinese ones to be anything other than from the same production line.

Whether the Chinese supplied versions have the same QC as the ones they send to Bergeon that is something that is up for debate.

I have quite a few China supplied tools and I have no doubt they are identical to the Bergeon branded tools, same tool marks and fully interchangeable parts, far to identical to just be a copy.

The other clue is to look at the Bergeon catalogue then look at the size of the factory/warehouse its just too small to be able to make all of that huge range of tools.

Watch out for the replies from the rose tinted specs brigade who can see no wrong in the dodgy Swiss watch industry and industry that is built on a lie.

[RichardHarris123]

I would have no issues buying Chinese tools, if I could differentiate good from bad beforehand. 

[LittleWatchShop]

16 hours ago, Paul80 said:

I have quite a few China supplied tools and I have no doubt they are identical

I would like to see what they are.  If Bergeon are sourced from China, might is well go directly to the source!  I would like that Bergeon tap and die set, but not gonna pay that price!!

[Paul80]

3 examples of tools Bergeon sell that are clearly made in China

Go on Aliexpress and search for the following items

1. Automatic oiler

2. Broken Screw Remover

3. Hand Press (the 4 head version)

Unfortunately you do need both Chinese and the Bergeon branded versions side by side to see just how obvious it is they came out of the same factory

[valleyguy]

This is the set of the 3 pin vices on ali that look like the bergeon set 30026 d.

Would you say these are the same or just a good copy.

The box of 3 in photo 4 not showing bergeons name is genuine, it's a photo from bergeons site, the others  pics are from ali, do you think they're out of the same factory, as anyone got a bergeon set of these do they look the same.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by valleyguy

[RichardHarris123]

The problem is, that's it's impossible to tell unless you buy them. An old friend always told me " buy the best you can afford and then you won't be disappointed " I've always followed that advice.  They may or not be the same quality. 

[LittleWatchShop]

Notice the difference in knurling on the smallest one. 

[valleyguy]

Thanks i now see the difference, they're copies.

I will order a single genuine one from cousins to change my stem crown, i was thinking i'd get a set of 3 for the price of 1.

Thanks that was a good spot.

[nickelsilver]

There's darn close, and there's exactly the same. I have no interest in defending Bergeon, but for them to say Swiss Made a certain percentage of the work has to be done here. Maybe, could be, they're having stuff made up to a point in China, then finishing here? I can't say for certain.

 

I know the Chinese knock offs of Horia stuff does look very similar, down to the white and green plastic trays for the pushers, but it's not the same, and I bet the guys who run the (quite small) operation in Delemont aren't too happy their stuff is getting copied.

[JohnFrum]

Does the original Horia have an upper knurled ratchet speeder above the main knurled thimble?

The Ruihua copy has what appears to be a speeder but is actually just an extension of the thimble. 
 

There are differences in the surface finishing of the Yongjui and Bergeon 1A automatic oilers.  The Yongjui also has an upper O ring around the reservoir that the original Bergeon does not have.  The parts are interchangeable. I actually have a Bergeon needle in my Yongjui. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by JohnFrum

[JohnR725]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, valleyguy said:

Bergeon

The important thing to remember with Bergeon Is there a distributor of stuff. Basically they contract with people to manufacture stuff. For instance Rodico Is manufactured in Canada for some other purpose and they buy the entire supply each year. The amazing things you learn when you go to their headquarters. No they did not say what it was previously manufactured for they just buy the entire lot. So it makes sense that they would outsource tools to China because they can. It would also make sense as to why there are so many cloned tools in the same boxes that look remarkably identical to the original because they were probably cloned in the same location.

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

I just ordered these.  I do not have any Bergeon to compare, but I have MANY vintage pin vises and feel like I can judge the quality of these.  Will report back.

[RichardHarris123]

5 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I just ordered these.  I do not have any Bergeon to compare, but I have MANY vintage pin vises and feel like I can judge the quality of these.  Will report back.

How much were they and how much are the Bergeon? 

[valleyguy]

The genuine Bergeons are around the $140 - $150, the ali ones around $20 - $30 depending on seller.

 

I ended up getting a set of 4 pin vices made by eclipse, cousins website says they are made in the UK, they look and feel well made all steel construction so should last me years, i had to give them a little clean they came well oiled, maybe not as good as the swiss ones but a step up from the chinese version.

Edited February 17, 2023 by valleyguy

[dadistic]

I have Starrett pin vises, very common in U.S. machine shops. Excellent quality, but pricey. I've heard good things about the Eclipse pin vises, but have never handled one. 

 Cheers!

[LittleWatchShop]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:52 PM, LittleWatchShop said:

I just ordered these.  I do not have any Bergeon to compare, but I have MANY vintage pin vises and feel like I can judge the quality of these.  Will report back.

NO!!  They are not bergeon quality.  Usable but crude.

[MCBwatchrepair]

the pinion removal tool is a dead give away as well