anyone know if this is a makers mark

[quantieme]

Hi All, I have seen this before but brain fog has engulfed me  is this a makers mark ?

[mikepilk]

It's not in the BestFit catalogue. I'm not sure it's a makers mark on that side. Is there anything on the other side?

If not, can you give the size, and a better pic of the keyless work to look up in BestFit.

[grsnovi]

I assume that you're asking about the cross - that I'm assuming indicates the watch is Swiss.

As Mike suggests, tell us the movement diameter and (if you can) remove the balance complete and look at the location on the main plate where the balance was to see if there's a mark there.

And (as Mike said) a better photo of the keyless configuration - possibly brush it off with a toothbrush or clean it up some?

[AndyHull]

Quite a number of makers stamped a Federal/Swiss cross on the movement.

There are also a number of makers who used that cross as part of their makers mark, so as others have said, and as I suspect, the keyless work is more likely to yield a clue as to the maker.

.. for example ..

You may find makers marks on the hidden side of the bridges or under the balance. There is no consistent place to look unfortunately, and some movements, particularly older ones, are really difficult to place.

 

Brevet incidentally means "Patent" so far as I am aware, and is not a particular manufacturer.

For example this piece that google provided when I searched for Brevet watch

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by AndyHull

[quantieme]

thanks for the replies, the maker according to the dial is Eszeha (Chopard), there is nothing on the movement side to indicate cal or maker so I was just wondering if it was a marriage and the movement had been replaced at sometime, I now do not think that is the case, probaby just a case of simply no makers mark at the time, I realise now the cross means Swiss manufacture. Thank you again for answers.

[clockboy]

I presume it’s Swiss. 

[praezis]

10 minutes ago, quantieme said:

the maker according to the dial is Eszeha (Chopard)

Not sure about this. Eszeha means "sch". According Mikrolisk a German maker (of the watch, not the movement).

Frank

[AndyHull]

Could it be this?

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Gruen_267

 

I looked up Swiss Patent 51482 on Google.

Ranfft's descriptions contains the following info.

Quote

Remarks
1920-
bimetallic screw balance

Swiss Patent 51482:
filed 05-03-1910, FHF, Fabrique d'Horlogerie de Fontainemelon (CH)
setting mechanism without setting-lever spring
 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by AndyHull

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 11/23/2022 at 7:17 PM, AndyHull said:

Quite a number of makers stamped a Federal/Swiss cross on the movement.

There are also a number of makers who used that cross as part of their makers mark, so as others have said, and as I suspect, the keyless work is more likely to yield a clue as to the maker.

.. for example ..

You may find makers marks on the hidden side of the bridges or under the balance. There is no consistent place to look unfortunately, and some movements, particularly older ones, are really difficult to place.

 

Brevet incidentally means "Patent" so far as I am aware, and is not a particular manufacturer.

For example this piece that google provided when I searched for Brevet watch

 

Brevet does translate to patent Andy. Lots of makers have this stamp sometimes on the case back. I assume the movement has something particular abouts its design that has been patented.

[AndyHull]

Technically you are correct (the best kind of correct), although if we are being pedantic Brevet d'invention (Fr) would be the correct French equivalent of the English word 'patent'.

So Brevet is more like certificate or certified, however in this context my understanding is that '+ brevet 51482' is an abbreviation of "Swiss brevet d'invention 51482"

As you say, that refers to a particular invention, function or feature of the watch that is subject to that patent, rather than the whole watch, which couldn't be subject to a single patent, (but the whole watch could be subject to some other form of design copyright or design registration certification).

On a related but slightly tangential note, the patent could have been reviewed by one Albert Einstein -> https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/the-history-of-the-ipi/einstein/einstein-at-the-patent-office

This particular patent is discussed here -> https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/fontainemelon.php

This all seems to make sense in light of the Ranfft mechanism I linked to above, since the Gruen 267  is an FHF -  (FHF 1144, 10.5''') and the patent is an FHF patent.

Edited November 25, 2022 by AndyHull