Rementoir 10 Rubis Diasassembly problem

[GEC]

Hello,

I have mostly diasassembled a beat up Rementoir 10 Rubis pocketwatch except for a few pieces. I am having a problem separating the barrel from what's supposed to be the ratchet wheel, but it looks more like a crown wheel. (?) Please forgive such a newbie question but I'd rather ask than destroy the pieces trying to take this apart. Also, I will try to do better with the pics.

[VWatchie]

I never saw anything like this so I'm curious. Perhaps the screw head was broken off?

[GEC]

I didn't see any screws nor removed any from there, which is puzzling. I'll take another look and attempt to take better pics.

[escabena]

They are 2 separate pieces. It has no screws, the upper wheel is pressed with the arbor of mainspring barrel. I recently found myself in the same situation. Somehow you have to try to separate both wheels. I don't know if there is any specific tool for this task.
I'm sure someone with more experience will explain it better.

Greetings.

[nickelsilver]

The piece above the ratchet wheel is a nut. You need a tool to fit the two radial holes to unscrew it while holding the ratchet wheel, usually a stubby pair of tweezers will work but you may need fine round nose pliers. The ratchet then comes off and the rest is as usual.

[GEC]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:55 AM, nickelsilver said:

The piece above the ratchet wheel is a nut. You need a tool to fit the two radial holes to unscrew it while holding the ratchet wheel, usually a stubby pair of tweezers will work but you may need fine round nose pliers. The ratchet then comes off and the rest is as usual.

Will try that, thank you.

[Nucejoe]

Ask for needle nose pliers, heres a pic.

https://images.app.goo.gl/LEzk8sfQRuzYkaZt7

[GEC]

Well, I tried to loosen that 'nut'. It appears to not want to spin. So I grabbed the arbor from the barrel side with needle nose pliers and tried to turn that nut. No go. I'm being as careful as I can be, but it's not cooperating. When I spin the barrel while holding the other wheel they are free and I can feel it slipping on the spring every few turns.

On 4/14/2022 at 10:52 PM, escabena said:

They are 2 separate pieces. It has no screws, the upper wheel is pressed with the arbor of mainspring barrel. I recently found myself in the same situation. Somehow you have to try to separate both wheels. I don't know if there is any specific tool for this task.
I'm sure someone with more experience will explain it better.

Greetings.

It would seem this is the way it is put together. I'm about to just try another watch.

[Neverenoughwatches]

51 minutes ago, GEC said:

Well, I tried to loosen that 'nut'. It appears to not want to spin. So I grabbed the arbor from the barrel side with needle nose pliers and tried to turn that nut. No go. I'm being as careful as I can be, but it's not cooperating. When I spin the barrel while holding the other wheel they are free and I can feel it slipping on the spring every few turns.

It would seem this is the way it is put together. I'm about to just try another watch.

Left hand threaded nut ?

[GEC]

Thought maybe that was it. Tried either rotation.

[grsnovi]

Have you tried soaking the whole bridge, barrel and wheel in a penetrating oil like this or this?

I agree with @nickelsilverthat the upper wheel is a nut that you have to remove with a tool you'd use to open snap rings.

Edited April 30, 2022 by grsnovi

[GEC]

Going to attempt soaking. It would appear the arbor is one with the nut on the ratchet wheel. It just seems that I should have provided enough force to break it loose.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, GEC said:

Thought maybe that was it. Tried either rotation.

It might be time to make a tool to fit the 2 holes so you can get more purchase on the nut to prevent slippage and damage if that's what it is. Even if its friction fitted the twisting action should start some removal of it. Some releasing agent shouldn't  be a miss before hand. A good grip of the barrel teeth in the wooden jaws of a movement  holder and also the ratchet wheel if possible. I made a good movement holder from a jewelers vice for little money and have peg wood inserts for gripping and a small pair of pliers with rubber sleeves to fit over the ends. With car and applance repair I often Introduce some heat to get things moving. The differing expansion rates of materials and also the relative sizes of components can create some reduction of the friction joint. Pressing bearings into washing machine drum arms was such fun lol. But it can work and at this stage you may be needing to step your game up. It would be much easier if you knew what you were actually dealing  with, friction or thread, what is seperate and what is not. As soon as you have a fraction of movement you will be more than half way there. And if like me be very proud of yourself for sticking with it and achieving success.  Good luck

Edited April 30, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[HectorLooi]

How are you getting enough force on the barrel? I'm sure the arbor is turning when you turn the ratchet wheel/nut.

[Nucejoe]

Hi

 Referring to your second picture , the barrel lid can be removed then the mainspring can be pulled out of the barrel, you then have the arbour all expsoed to be grabbed in long nose pliers and unscrew the ratchet screw . Rememer ratchet screw always tightens as the barrel winds.

Give all part a 48hrs soak in Coca Cola, it really works.

Good luck pal

[HectorLooi]

From what I can see, you have to pop off the barrel cap and use a pin vise to grip the barrel arbor to secure it before you can turn the ratchet wheel off.

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Give all part a 48hrs soak in Coca Cola, it really works.

Good luck pal

Hiya matey. Any idea what the coke does. I know it does contain phosphoric acid. I've been put off using it because of the sugar content. Diet coke? 

[Nucejoe]

 I know Coca-Cola works like penetrating oil, someone here expalined that phospheric acid in it is the active ingredient, not sure if its a degreaser or rust killer. 

 Sugar is unhealthy , I give the parts a bath in tap water in ultrasonic to disolve any sugar residue , dry and another bath in lighter fluid. 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 I know Coca-Cola works like penetrating oil, someone here expalined that phospheric acid in it is the active ingredient, not sure if its a degreaser or rust killer. 

 Sugar is unhealthy , I give the parts a bath in tap water in ultrasonic to disolve any sugar residue , dry and another bath in lighter fluid. 

 

Indeed phosphoric acid does breakdown iron oxide. Also stomach lining lol.