Timex M24 fast

[rfitts46]

1 hour ago, JerseyMo said:

have a look here - https://heritage1854.com  for more Info on movements.

black seconds hand...no problem I can list under my seller id.

Timex used a small brass wedge pin to keep the end of the hair spring in place.  Is that missing?

 

JerseyMo no the wedge is  not missing. I was looking for a confirmation of design. How is the spring attached to the adjustor? It reads as if the spring is kept lets say in a hole in the adjustor and just the spring tension keeps it there.

List here on this forum or Ebay using your seller id?  thanks Bob

[JerseyMo]

the hairspring passes through the regulator.  I'll pm you about sweep.

[rfitts46]

Alright got home after work and got to work. Removed spring wedge and balance wheel. There was a hole through the top plate where the back end of the wedge could be seen. Using a small screwdriver as a pry bar against the side of the hole the wedge came out. 

The bearings and bearing pivots look good. I did sharpen a toothpick and dipping into alcohol cleaned the bearings.

The balance wheel and hairspring got rinsed three times in solvent. The spring definately looks cleaner.

I ordered three precision oilers which might help for oiling the bearings. When the time comes to peg the hair spring a tiny pushing bar with an opening to receive the end of the wedge would be nice ensuring no slipping off the peg while inserting. 

Will review with our lead model shop friend.

[rfitts46]

Alright reassembled after cleaning and lubing. Looking good so far.

[rfitts46]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:12 PM, JerseyMo said:

the hairspring passes through the regulator.  I'll pm you about sweep.

Jersey concerning the M27 dial face and the black M24 sweep hand?

[rfitts46]

Put dial face on to determine if cleaning and oiling balance wheel changes the movement's too fast issue.

 

[watchweasol]

Keep us posted on the result

 

[rfitts46]

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Keep us posted on the result

 

Watchweasol one thing I have learned is to not use aerosol contact cleaner with lubricant. Having oil everywhere does not help with the battle.

[watchweasol]

Very true lubrication needs to be put where its needed and only in controlled amounts. Starting with a Timex is a steep learning curve because of their construction, so well done for getting it back together there are many who would not attempt it in the first place

[HectorLooi]

There are two things that I don't understand.

Firstly, why did you use contact cleaner on a mechanical watch? Contact cleaner is only used on Timex Electric/Electronic watches. 

Secondly, contact cleaner may appear oily but it evaporates eventually. After all, you wouldn't want oil on an electrical contact to catch fire.

[rfitts46]

10 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

There are two things that I don't understand.

Firstly, why did you use contact cleaner on a mechanical watch? Contact cleaner is only used on Timex Electric/Electronic watches. 

Secondly, contact cleaner may appear oily but it evaporates eventually. After all, you wouldn't want oil on an electrical contact to catch fire.

HectorLooi, I restore, collect, and flip antique/vintage audio vintage hifi gear. There is contact cleaner for on/off style switches and there is contact cleaner with lubrication for sliding resistive type switches (potentiometers). Thought process was the cleaner/lubrication is in a solvent based aerosol spray and would penetrate and get to places that is not accessible without teardown. I just expanded my interest in mechanical watches couple months back. What I thought was an easy way out to lubricate a watch has gone out the window. Bad Idea!

[rfitts46]

watch is still running 5-10 minutes fast in 12 hours. Adjustor is bottomed I believe.

Anyone got any other ideas to slow it down?

[watchweasol]

Hi we are back to the point where the spring needs to be made longer. Is there any excess balance spring protruding from the back of the pinning point if so by slackening the wedge and pushing the spring in  it will make it longer and effectivly slow the watch down. Making the spring longer in the round will also put it off beat so that will need to be adjusted, with out some method of deteting the beat error ie Timegapher or the like it will be difficult, a matter of trial and error which is time consuming.

[rfitts46]

Magnetized?

[watchweasol]

Its a possibility have you not done that already ?.  Have you chesked that when the coils are vibrating that they do dot touch and the spring vibrates between the sides of the regulator and does not hang on to one side or th other.

[JerseyMo]

items listed and message sent

 

 

[rfitts46]

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Its a possibility have you not done that already ?.  Have you chesked that when the coils are vibrating that they do dot touch and the spring vibrates between the sides of the regulator and does not hang on to one side or th other.

no I do not have a demagnetizer. I just started playing with the Timex's a couple months ago. I just checked a demagnetizer can be had on Amazon for $12 or so. 

You said " Have you checked that when the coils are vibrating that they do not not touch"......so watching the hair spring while the balance wheel oscillates the coils should not touch? 

You said " and the spring vibrates between the sides of the regulator and does not hang on to one side or the other"

is this observing the spring within the slot in the adjustor which the spring runs through?  The sides of the regulator is the sides of the slot cut into the regulator which the spring runs through? While observing the balance wheel oscillating the spring within the slot in the adjustor should touch one side of the slot during half of the cycle and then touch the other side of the slot during the other half of the cycle??

[rfitts46]

16 minutes ago, rfitts46 said:

no I do not have a demagnetizer. I just started playing with the Timex's a couple months ago. I just checked a demagnetizer can be had on Amazon for $12 or so. 

You said " Have you checked that when the coils are vibrating that they do not not touch"......so watching the hair spring while the balance wheel oscillates the coils should not touch? 

You said " and the spring vibrates between the sides of the regulator and does not hang on to one side or the other"

is this observing the spring within the slot in the adjustor which the spring runs through?  The sides of the regulator is the sides of the slot cut into the regulator which the spring runs through? While observing the balance wheel oscillating the spring within the slot in the adjustor should touch one side of the slot during half of the cycle and then touch the other side of the slot during the other half of the cycle??

the Timex M24 service manual states that the hairspring should be in light contact of the inside edge of the slot in the adjustor through out the entire cycle of the balnce wheel.

2 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

items listed and message sent

 

 

thanks Jersey....may hold off until I can determine why the watch is running fast.

[watchweasol]

Under normal circumstances  a watch spring beats within the regulator, Timex were a law unto  them selves so if the manual states a light touch on the inner side so be it.  When the coils beat they should be free with no interfearance if the coils are touching  and not flat  it has an effect on the spring  which could cause your problem

[JerseyMo]

guess I should list a model 27 too

 

[rfitts46]

31 minutes ago, JerseyMo said:

guess I should list a model 27 too

 

Jersey, please do. Bob

[HectorLooi]

Could it be that your regulator is stuck? Try putting a drop of oil where the regulator is riveted to the plate and work the regulator left and right.

[rfitts46]

Okay got home after work and inspected the hair spring closely and lo behold the two most outer coils were touching. So I stopped the balance wheel and oh so very carefully separated the two coils and they stayed apart. 

Have been monitoring the watch and I believe the watch is not running fast. Will continue to monitor and check in the morning. But am confident that it is not because I would note after a couple hours that it would jump a minute and it doesn't appear to do that now. Very excited thanks watchweasol for the insight on inspecting the hair spring after installation . 

[rfitts46]

4 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Could it be that your regulator is stuck? Try putting a drop of oil where the regulator is riveted to the plate and work the regulator left and right.

HectorLooi I think we got it. Thanks

[rfitts46]

Picture of dial face...borrowed second hand from a Kelton that is in que.