Jump to content

Regulating Raketa 2609 HA - what’s causing this?

Zendoc

By Zendoc
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

 Share

Recommended Posts

Zendoc Member

Zendoc

Posted
Posted

Hello all and Happy New Year.

I’m new to this magic of wheels and would appreciate some advice so I can learn.

I’ve just finished servicing a Raketa Kopernic with 2609 HA movement and have found a big difference in rate, dependent on position. I don’t recall this being the case prior to the service.  I demagnetised the movement prior to regulation using my Elma Antimag.

The timegrapher shows nice steady traces and I can regulate the dial up position to +4s/d but here’s what else I find:

Dial Up: +4s/d,  amp 330,  0.0mS 

Dial down: -45s/d, amp 286, 0.0mS

Crown down: -42s/d, amp 289, 0.0mS

I can adjust to the following rates:

DU: +15s/d

DD: -20s/d

Crown Down: -11s/d

Which will average things out over those 3 positions, but my question is - what are the possible  causes of the big difference between the Dial up and Dial down rates?  What have I done or not done during the service which has caused this difference?

Any advice gratefully received.

Cheers,

John in Tasmania.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
Posted

In general its worn/dirty balance pivot or jewels of cock/ mainplate or impulse also excessive balance pivot end shake. I check the end shake before taking anything apart.

I don't think you are dealing with hairspring intermitent sticking or any part rubbing.

Regs

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

Then it's always nice to show us a picture just because we like to see pictures.

11 hours ago, Zendoc said:

I don’t recall this being the case prior to the service.  

This is where I'd like to record the before servicing and after servicing numbers. It's nice to see a comparison and see if you've increase the amplitude improved the watch etc.

11 hours ago, Zendoc said:

Dial Up: +4s/d,  amp 330,  0.0mS 

Dial down: -45s/d, amp 286, 0.0mS

Crown down: -42s/d, amp 289, 0.0mS

Did you notice an interesting problem here? Who cares about the rate sort of what about the amplitude? 330° dial-up Then you lose 44° dial down and actually have better amplitude in crown down? Typically dial up and dial down should be very very close to identical in amplitude.

Then personally I always like to look at the watch in six positions four separate crown positions and dial up and down.

Here's something fun try an experiment in dial-up let some of the power off the mainspring bring the amplitude down to about 280° and then tell us what sort of time keeping you have? I suspect your regulator pins are too far apart which is why you're having an amplitude timekeeping issue. Then you have to take care your pivots because dial-up and dial down can not be that different it's very bad if a crown position is better then a dial position not impossible but it's just really really bad to do that.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zendoc Member

Zendoc

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks everyone for your interest and advice. 

There were two issues, I think.

These movements often have 0, 1 or 2 shims under the balance cock. This movement had 2.  I removed one of them, the end shake reduced and things improved significantly.  I also had a careful re-look at the balance spring and it had a few unusual twists and the end curve was eccentric.  I removed the spring, smoothed all that out, refitted the balance and re-cleaned and lubricated the balance jewels.  

The end result is that the movement is now running nicely - the amplitudes are now as expected.  Thanks JohnR725 for your explanations which make perfect sense. And yes, I’ll get into the habit of documenting the watch performance on the timegrapher before servicing - allows meaningful comparison.  Thanks for the prompt.  As I said, I’m new to all this. Lots to learn.

Thanks again!

Until next time,

John

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • praezis
      Greetings from India.

      By praezis · Posted

      Welcome! To which part of India will my greetings go? Frank
    • mikepilk
      Hairsrping alignment

      By mikepilk · Posted

      I agree with @Waggy, no need to adjust. That looks very good to me. The factory specs for 7S26 are something like -35 to +45s/day, but they are usually better. The amplitude is good. When wearing, the most important positions are dial up, crown down and crown left. You need to regulate so that these positions average out to about zero. Crown down is showing +14, so you may have to set dial up to slightly minus s/day. The absolute values of +/-s/day don't really matter, as long as they aren't too far out. The only way to get good accuracy is to wear it for a couple of days, recording the errors, and gradually tweaking.
    • VWatchie
      Looking for advice on removing the glass and bezel

      By VWatchie · Posted

      @Jon The link is no longer working and I wanted to see that demonstration again. Is there any chance you can make it available again? I'd appreciate it!
    • mikepilk
      DIY centre seconds support base

      By mikepilk · Posted

      Or, if you have a staking set or jewelling too, just use one of the stumps. You can choose a fine tip to fit inside a jewel if necessary.
    • Knebo
      Rolex 3130/3135 Automatic winding issue

      By Knebo · Posted

      Good morning,   To be honest, I'm not sure I trust my own logic anymore 😅. But here's a picture of my own (failed!) attempt to install a new rotor axle. I punched way to hard and even split the metal of the rotor. My thinking was that, in my case, the axle sits "deeper" in the rotor and hence the rotor would be closer to the movement plates. Vice versa, I was thinking that a very light punch could cause the rotor to sit rather high. But not sure that makes sense because in both cases, the flat part of the axle and the rotor align equally.     Sorry, but is he saying that the outside of the caseback has been polished to such an extent that the inside of the caseback has deformed/sunk??? That sounds crazy to me because those casebacks are thick! Can you see any signs of that on the inside of the caseback? Have you tried screwing in the caseback a litte bit more or less so that the supposedly "sunk" part of the caseback would move from 9 o'clock to e.g. 6/7 or 11/12 o'clock?  If the caseback is truly deformed, maybe it could be punched/pressed back into shape (e.g. with glass/caseback closing press).      I agree with your choice. But yea, Rolex makes it VERY hard for independent watchmakers to do a perfect job because we can't get (original) parts easily.      Your pictures aren't too bad. But still impossible to see if the rotor isn't perfectly flat. You'd have to look at it with your loupe, from the side (like the pictures), and turn the rotor to see if the gaps (with the automatic bridge plates) increase/decrease.     Finally... how is the up/down play of the rotor? To test, take a toothpick/pegwood and press on the small triangular side of the rotor next to the axle (NOT the big side where the weight is. But the opposite side.). Does that lift up the weight-side of the rotor? There can be some play, but it should really be minimal. If there's too much play, a new spring clip is the first thing to do. After that, one could play around with the jewels. This is too much:
×
×
  • Create New...