Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

ETA 2801 I think the ratch wheel I broke the screw.

I was trying to power up the main spring to see if the seconds hand would touch the new crystal and I thought I could wind it up by screw driver and it snapped.

pic of damage. Any way to get that screw out?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Posted

Ok i got out the broken screw with tweezers holding and spinning the watch head.

So I think the click flew into space and is gone. I guess I just need to buy a new ratchet screw and click and put them back and it should be ok.

Posted
11 minutes ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

is the Click Spring ( 430 ), ETA 2750 Same as 2801.2?

 

I can't find the part and the shape seems different then 2824

Go to Dr rannft website to see eta2801 and variants based on it, ratche screw of any variat would fit, even if the screw head look different. 

Clicks also interchamge between all members of same family.

Regs

Posted
4 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Go to Dr rannft website to see eta2801 and variants based on it, ratche screw of any variat would fit, even if the screw head look different. 

Clicks also interchamge between all members of same family.

Regs

do you think I broke my mainspring as well? or just the ratchet screw? Is there a way to tell?

Posted
9 hours ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

I thought I could wind it up by screw driver and it snapped.

What I've observed when I've handled a 2824 for the first time. is that the ratchet wheel screw is undersized and clearly not meant to be used for winding.

Posted
On 11/18/2021 at 6:53 AM, FALLINGTITAN said:

do you think I broke my mainspring as well? 

I'd say no you didn't.

On 11/18/2021 at 6:53 AM, FALLINGTITAN said:

Is there a way to tell?

Power reserve plummets if you did.

Posted (edited)
On 11/18/2021 at 9:01 AM, jdm said:

What I've observed when I've handled a 2824 for the first time. is that the ratchet wheel screw is undersized and clearly not meant to be used for winding.

I never really thought about this, but generally I would assume ratchet wheel screws are really just designed to hold the ratchet wheel securely in place. As the keyless works is often one of the more time consuming and complex sections to assemble and I wish to test the running of the watch ASAP, I often wait with the keyless works assembly and wind the mainspring using the ratchet wheel screw instead. The more I think about it the more it appears to be a bad idea, and I've had a few bad experiences winding the watch using the ratchet wheel screw, at least when trying to wind it fully. A little wind is of course no problem.

2824_ratchet_wheel_screw.thumb.JPG.688035ca3a5e8d10bafdb7db73af6f75.JPG
This is the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2824-2

2804_ratchet_wheel_screw.thumb.JPG.f088869344f724c328fcf0bac67bdbdf.JPG
This the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2804-2 (interchangeable with ETA 2801, 2801-1, and 2801-2)

In my eyes the 2801 screw (the one the OP snapped) looks sturdier than the 2824 screw. Nevertheless, I suspect it to be a bad idea to try to wind any watch fully using the ratchet wheel screw, and it would be interesting to hear what the pros have to say about this (for example @nickelsilver)

And while I'm at it. Yes, it's definitely my impression that the ETA 2824-2 was never designed to be manually wound regularly using the crown. I bought an inexpensive used Hamilton Khaki on eBay housing an ETA 2824-2 and had an array of problems with it until I realized the winding pinion and the sliding pinion (made of brass) were worn out. That movement was a riddle to me until I realized what was wrong and was discussed here.

When Damasko designed their in-house calibre A26 they used the ETA 2824-2 as model and among other things the brass components of the keyless works were replaced with hardened steel. The A26 has the same dimensions as the 2824-2 and the two calibres are interchangeable, but as far as I know the A26 or parts for it are not freely available to buy!?

Edited by VWatchie
Posted

The ratchet wheel screw should definitely not be used to wind up the watch- and more importantly, not used to let down the power. There's an excellent chance of breaking the screw in either situation, and if letting down the power it's almost certain the screwdriver will slip at some point, scratching components and possibly allowing an "instantaneous full discharge", which can cause serious damage.

 

The only exception I can think of is possibly some automatic Seikos where there is no provision to wind other than the ratchet screw or on a winding machine for automatics. I only see a Seiko once every 5 years or so, but on the last one (a chronograph), there was access to the ratchet screw through the chrono bridge, and it did seem strong enough to take it- and that's how I wound up the watch for testing.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted
6 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The ratchet wheel screw should definitely not be used to wind up the watch- and more importantly, not used to let down the power. There's an excellent chance of breaking the screw in either situation, and if letting down the power it's almost certain the screwdriver will slip at some point, scratching components and possibly allowing an "instantaneous full discharge", which can cause serious damage.

 

The only exception I can think of is possibly some automatic Seikos where there is no provision to wind other than the ratchet screw or on a winding machine for automatics. I only see a Seiko once every 5 years or so, but on the last one (a chronograph), there was access to the ratchet screw through the chrono bridge, and it did seem strong enough to take it- and that's how I wound up the watch for testing.

I mostly work with seikos so I always wind with the rachet screw.

Oh man once my ratch screw and click spring comes in. I'll put the click and click spring in and rachet wheel and screw it down and pray it works! I hope my main spring isn't gone. I'll have to wait to see if the 80hr power reserve is working 3 days. sigh...

Posted
9 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The ratchet wheel screw should definitely not be used to wind up the watch- and more importantly, not used to let down the power.

Thanks, much appreciated and very useful, as always! 👍

So, I guess there's reason all ETA assembly procedures begin with the keyless works 😉 Fortunately and in most cases, the keyless works doesn't need to be disassembled should fault finding be necessary after having installed the barrel, train, and escapement.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 11/21/2021 at 4:51 AM, VWatchie said:

I never really thought about this, but generally I would assume ratchet wheel screws are really just designed to hold the ratchet wheel securely in place. As the keyless works is often one of the more time consuming and complex sections to assemble and I wish to test the running of the watch ASAP, I often wait with the keyless works assembly and wind the mainspring using the ratchet wheel screw instead. The more I think about it the more it appears to be a bad idea, and I've had a few bad experiences winding the watch using the ratchet wheel screw, at least when trying to wind it fully. A little wind is of course no problem.

2824_ratchet_wheel_screw.thumb.JPG.688035ca3a5e8d10bafdb7db73af6f75.JPG
This is the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2824-2

2804_ratchet_wheel_screw.thumb.JPG.f088869344f724c328fcf0bac67bdbdf.JPG
This the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2804-2 (interchangeable with ETA 2801, 2801-1, and 2801-2)

In my eyes the 2801 screw (the one the OP snapped) looks sturdier than the 2824 screw. Nevertheless, I suspect it to be a bad idea to try to wind any watch fully using the ratchet wheel screw, and it would be interesting to hear what the pros have to say about this (for example @nickelsilver)

And while I'm at it. Yes, it's definitely my impression that the ETA 2824-2 was never designed to be manually wound regularly using the crown. I bought an inexpensive used Hamilton Khaki on eBay housing an ETA 2824-2 and had an array of problems with it until I realized the winding pinion and the sliding pinion (made of brass) were worn out. That movement was a riddle to me until I realized what was wrong and was discussed here.

When Damasko designed their in-house calibre A26 they used the ETA 2824-2 as model and among other things the brass components of the keyless works were replaced with hardened steel. The A26 has the same dimensions as the 2824-2 and the two calibres are interchangeable, but as far as I know the A26 or parts for it are not freely available to buy!?

do you know what screw I need? i ordered the ETA2705 ratchet as it says it would fit but it doesn't fit. Just spent an hour trying to screw in the ratchet screw. It looks like the head is smaller and the thread is thicker? then the one in your photo.

Posted
On 11/18/2021 at 5:36 AM, VWatchie said:

got the part from cousins uk. it doesn't fit at all. Screw For Ratchet Wheel (5415), ETA 2800

I'll try the Tudor Caliber 1156 (ETA 1080) Part Number 5415 (Ratchet Wheel Screw) it looks like the correct size and shape.

Posted
23 minutes ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

got the part from cousins uk

They don't seem to have the 2801 ratchet wheel screw.

23 minutes ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

I'll try the Tudor Caliber 1156 (ETA 1080) Part Number 5415 (Ratchet Wheel Screw) it looks like the correct size and shape.

Don't think that will work.

Perhaps try to find a donor movement on eBay!?

Posted
14 hours ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

I'll try the Tudor Caliber 1156 (ETA 1080) Part Number 5415 (Ratchet Wheel Screw) it looks like the correct size and shape.

029.thumb.JPG.7e61f5b5ead2ef8e2d7c0c489a47d0c6.JPG
ETA 1080 Ratchet Wheel, and Ratchet Wheel Screw.

Yes, the screw looks similar to the ratchet wheel screw of the ETA 2804 / ETA 2801 / etc. but not being listed as interchangeable I seriously doubt it would fit.

  • Like 1
Posted
14 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi for a cross reference have a look at Jules Borel site,   JBL database  and look up the part there.    cheers

Thanks that site is very difficult to navigate and use tho.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • it would be nice to have the exact model of the watch the or a picture so we can see exactly what you're talking about. this is because the definition of Swiss watch could be a variety of things and it be helpful if we could see exactly the watch your dealing with then in professional watch repair at least some professionals they do pre-cleaned watches. In other words the hands and dial come off and the entire movement assembled goes through a cleaning machine sometimes I think a shorter bath perhaps so everything is nice and clean for disassembly makes it easier to look for problems. Then other professionals don't like pre-cleaning because it basically obliterates the scene of the crime. Especially when dealing with vintage watches where you're looking for metal filings and problems that may visually go away with cleaning. Then usually super sticky lubrication isn't really a problem for disassembly and typically shouldn't be a problem on a pallet fork bridge because there shouldn't be any lubrication on the bridge at all as you typically do not oil the pallet fork pivots.  
    • A few things you should find out before you can mske a decision of what to do. As Richard said, what is the crown and all of the crown components made of . Then also the stem .  The crown looks to have a steel washer that retains a gasket. So be careful with what chemicals you use to dissolve any stem adhesives or the use of heat. You might swell or melt the gasket unless you are prepared to change that also . The steel washer maybe reactive to alum. Something I've just used to dissolve a broken screw from a plate. First drilled out the centre of the screw with a 0.5mm carbide . Dipped only the section that held the broken screw in Rustins rust remover. This is 40 % phosphoric acid. 3 days and the screw remains were completely dissolved, no trace of steel in the brass threads. A black puddle left in the solution.
    • I suppose this will add to the confusion I have a roller jewel assortment. It lists out American pocket watches for Elgin 18 size and even 16 size it's a 50. But not all the various companies used 50-50 does seem to be common one company had a 51 and the smallest is 43. American parts are always interesting? Francis Elgin for mainsprings will tell you the thickness of the spring other companies will not even though the spring for the same number could come in a variety of thicknesses. But if we actually had the model number of your watch we would find it probably makes a reference that the roller jewel came in different dimensions. So overlook the parts book we find that? So it appears to be 18 and 16 size would be the same sort of the arson different catalog numbers and as I said we don't have your Mongol know which Log number were supposed to be using. Variety of materials garnered her sapphire single or double but zero mention about diameters. Then in a section of rollers in this case rollers with jewels we do get this down in the notes section Roller specifications but of course zero reference to the jewel size. I was really hoping the roller jewel assortment would give us sizes it doesn't really. But it does show a picture of how one particular roller jewel gauge is used  
    • Seems to still do it through my mobile data, I use an android phone almost exclusively, but I'll double check it. Thanks mark Strange, I'll try my laptop that utilities edge. I've been on site half hour since I got home, it hasn't done it yet. Thanks John
    • At work, I'm on MS Edge, not through chose, on my phone, chrome, no issues with either. 
×
×
  • Create New...