eta2801 broken screw....Screwed up need help!

[FALLINGTITAN]

ETA 2801 I think the ratch wheel I broke the screw.

I was trying to power up the main spring to see if the seconds hand would touch the new crystal and I thought I could wind it up by screw driver and it snapped.

pic of damage. Any way to get that screw out?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[FALLINGTITAN]

Ok i got out the broken screw with tweezers holding and spinning the watch head.

So I think the click flew into space and is gone. I guess I just need to buy a new ratchet screw and click and put them back and it should be ok.

[FALLINGTITAN]

is the Click Spring ( 430 ), ETA 2750 Same as 2801.2?

 

I can't find the part and the shape seems different then 2824

[Nucejoe]

11 minutes ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

is the Click Spring ( 430 ), ETA 2750 Same as 2801.2?

 

I can't find the part and the shape seems different then 2824

Go to Dr rannft website to see eta2801 and variants based on it, ratche screw of any variat would fit, even if the screw head look different. 

Clicks also interchamge between all members of same family.

Regs

[FALLINGTITAN]

ok cool! I just saw the click does look bent on the 2801. 2750s vs the 2824 could be wrong tho.

[FALLINGTITAN]

4 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Go to Dr rannft website to see eta2801 and variants based on it, ratche screw of any variat would fit, even if the screw head look different. 

Clicks also interchamge between all members of same family.

Regs

do you think I broke my mainspring as well? or just the ratchet screw? Is there a way to tell?

[jdm]

9 hours ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

I thought I could wind it up by screw driver and it snapped.

What I've observed when I've handled a 2824 for the first time. is that the ratchet wheel screw is undersized and clearly not meant to be used for winding.

[watchweasol]

29_ETA2801.2-ETA2836.2 (9).pdf  Hi Find attached the tech sheet for the 2801. I contains references for interchangeability between models of the same family.   Hope that it helps.      

[VWatchie]

11 hours ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

is the Click Spring ( 430 ), ETA 2750 Same as 2801.2?

Very likely yes!

 

[Nucejoe]

On 11/18/2021 at 6:53 AM, FALLINGTITAN said:

do you think I broke my mainspring as well? 

I'd say no you didn't.

On 11/18/2021 at 6:53 AM, FALLINGTITAN said:

Is there a way to tell?

Power reserve plummets if you did.

[VWatchie]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:01 AM, jdm said:

What I've observed when I've handled a 2824 for the first time. is that the ratchet wheel screw is undersized and clearly not meant to be used for winding.

I never really thought about this, but generally I would assume ratchet wheel screws are really just designed to hold the ratchet wheel securely in place. As the keyless works is often one of the more time consuming and complex sections to assemble and I wish to test the running of the watch ASAP, I often wait with the keyless works assembly and wind the mainspring using the ratchet wheel screw instead. The more I think about it the more it appears to be a bad idea, and I've had a few bad experiences winding the watch using the ratchet wheel screw, at least when trying to wind it fully. A little wind is of course no problem.

This is the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2824-2

This the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2804-2 (interchangeable with ETA 2801, 2801-1, and 2801-2)

In my eyes the 2801 screw (the one the OP snapped) looks sturdier than the 2824 screw. Nevertheless, I suspect it to be a bad idea to try to wind any watch fully using the ratchet wheel screw, and it would be interesting to hear what the pros have to say about this (for example @nickelsilver)

And while I'm at it. Yes, it's definitely my impression that the ETA 2824-2 was never designed to be manually wound regularly using the crown. I bought an inexpensive used Hamilton Khaki on eBay housing an ETA 2824-2 and had an array of problems with it until I realized the winding pinion and the sliding pinion (made of brass) were worn out. That movement was a riddle to me until I realized what was wrong and was discussed here.

When Damasko designed their in-house calibre A26 they used the ETA 2824-2 as model and among other things the brass components of the keyless works were replaced with hardened steel. The A26 has the same dimensions as the 2824-2 and the two calibres are interchangeable, but as far as I know the A26 or parts for it are not freely available to buy!?

Edited November 21, 2021 by VWatchie

[nickelsilver]

The ratchet wheel screw should definitely not be used to wind up the watch- and more importantly, not used to let down the power. There's an excellent chance of breaking the screw in either situation, and if letting down the power it's almost certain the screwdriver will slip at some point, scratching components and possibly allowing an "instantaneous full discharge", which can cause serious damage.

 

The only exception I can think of is possibly some automatic Seikos where there is no provision to wind other than the ratchet screw or on a winding machine for automatics. I only see a Seiko once every 5 years or so, but on the last one (a chronograph), there was access to the ratchet screw through the chrono bridge, and it did seem strong enough to take it- and that's how I wound up the watch for testing.

[FALLINGTITAN]

6 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The ratchet wheel screw should definitely not be used to wind up the watch- and more importantly, not used to let down the power. There's an excellent chance of breaking the screw in either situation, and if letting down the power it's almost certain the screwdriver will slip at some point, scratching components and possibly allowing an "instantaneous full discharge", which can cause serious damage.

 

The only exception I can think of is possibly some automatic Seikos where there is no provision to wind other than the ratchet screw or on a winding machine for automatics. I only see a Seiko once every 5 years or so, but on the last one (a chronograph), there was access to the ratchet screw through the chrono bridge, and it did seem strong enough to take it- and that's how I wound up the watch for testing.

I mostly work with seikos so I always wind with the rachet screw.

Oh man once my ratch screw and click spring comes in. I'll put the click and click spring in and rachet wheel and screw it down and pray it works! I hope my main spring isn't gone. I'll have to wait to see if the 80hr power reserve is working 3 days. sigh...

[VWatchie]

9 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

The ratchet wheel screw should definitely not be used to wind up the watch- and more importantly, not used to let down the power.

Thanks, much appreciated and very useful, as always! 

So, I guess there's reason all ETA assembly procedures begin with the keyless works  Fortunately and in most cases, the keyless works doesn't need to be disassembled should fault finding be necessary after having installed the barrel, train, and escapement.

[FALLINGTITAN]

On 11/21/2021 at 4:51 AM, VWatchie said:

I never really thought about this, but generally I would assume ratchet wheel screws are really just designed to hold the ratchet wheel securely in place. As the keyless works is often one of the more time consuming and complex sections to assemble and I wish to test the running of the watch ASAP, I often wait with the keyless works assembly and wind the mainspring using the ratchet wheel screw instead. The more I think about it the more it appears to be a bad idea, and I've had a few bad experiences winding the watch using the ratchet wheel screw, at least when trying to wind it fully. A little wind is of course no problem.

This is the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2824-2

This the ratchet wheel screw for the ETA 2804-2 (interchangeable with ETA 2801, 2801-1, and 2801-2)

In my eyes the 2801 screw (the one the OP snapped) looks sturdier than the 2824 screw. Nevertheless, I suspect it to be a bad idea to try to wind any watch fully using the ratchet wheel screw, and it would be interesting to hear what the pros have to say about this (for example @nickelsilver)

And while I'm at it. Yes, it's definitely my impression that the ETA 2824-2 was never designed to be manually wound regularly using the crown. I bought an inexpensive used Hamilton Khaki on eBay housing an ETA 2824-2 and had an array of problems with it until I realized the winding pinion and the sliding pinion (made of brass) were worn out. That movement was a riddle to me until I realized what was wrong and was discussed here.

When Damasko designed their in-house calibre A26 they used the ETA 2824-2 as model and among other things the brass components of the keyless works were replaced with hardened steel. The A26 has the same dimensions as the 2824-2 and the two calibres are interchangeable, but as far as I know the A26 or parts for it are not freely available to buy!?

do you know what screw I need? i ordered the ETA2705 ratchet as it says it would fit but it doesn't fit. Just spent an hour trying to screw in the ratchet screw. It looks like the head is smaller and the thread is thicker? then the one in your photo.

[FALLINGTITAN]

On 11/18/2021 at 5:36 AM, VWatchie said:

Very likely yes!

 

got the part from cousins uk. it doesn't fit at all. Screw For Ratchet Wheel (5415), ETA 2800

I'll try the Tudor Caliber 1156 (ETA 1080) Part Number 5415 (Ratchet Wheel Screw) it looks like the correct size and shape.

[VWatchie]

31 minutes ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

do you know what screw I need? i ordered the ETA2705 ratchet as it says it would fit but it doesn't fit.

"it says"? Who's it?

Here's a list of calibers that would share the same ratchet wheel screw. That is, if it's for your ETA 2801?

Edited December 1, 2021 by VWatchie

[VWatchie]

23 minutes ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

got the part from cousins uk

They don't seem to have the 2801 ratchet wheel screw.

23 minutes ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

I'll try the Tudor Caliber 1156 (ETA 1080) Part Number 5415 (Ratchet Wheel Screw) it looks like the correct size and shape.

Don't think that will work.

Perhaps try to find a donor movement on eBay!?

[FALLINGTITAN]

3 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

"it says"? Who's it?

Here's a list of calibers that would share the same ratchet wheel screw. That is, if it's for your ETA 2801?

2804 hamilton khaki movement.  I think I found it. they are all 5415 but then there is another number. 5415/648 looks to be correct 2801 should be interchangable.

[VWatchie]

14 hours ago, FALLINGTITAN said:

I'll try the Tudor Caliber 1156 (ETA 1080) Part Number 5415 (Ratchet Wheel Screw) it looks like the correct size and shape.

ETA 1080 Ratchet Wheel, and Ratchet Wheel Screw.

Yes, the screw looks similar to the ratchet wheel screw of the ETA 2804 / ETA 2801 / etc. but not being listed as interchangeable I seriously doubt it would fit.

[FALLINGTITAN]

Can't believe how hard is it to get screws or parts for eta

 

[FALLINGTITAN]

On 11/18/2021 at 5:08 AM, watchweasol said:

29_ETA2801.2-ETA2836.2 (9).pdf  Hi Find attached the tech sheet for the 2801. I contains references for interchangeability between models of the same family.   Hope that it helps.      

It says 2800 ETA which is the screw I got. Doesn't fit. So maybe that thing is wrong.

[watchweasol]

Hi for a cross reference have a look at Jules Borel site,   JBL database  and look up the part there.    cheers

[FALLINGTITAN]

14 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi for a cross reference have a look at Jules Borel site,   JBL database  and look up the part there.    cheers

Thanks that site is very difficult to navigate and use tho.

[watchweasol]

Hi   I have just looked up cousins uk for the part   it is listed as in stock eta28005415 sold in packs of three for £3.75,    I did look up Borels for you but although listed there was no detail

29_ETA2801.2-ETA2836.2 (7).pdf