Lost a cannon pinion & a few screws, help

[Soleil]

Due to a split second of distraction, have lost a cannon pinion and a couple of screws in the midst of dismantling the watch. I would like to purchase the donor parts and put it back together. It appears to be a standard chronograph, and I would appreciate it if someone can tell me where I can buy a replacement and how to determine the size of the cannon pinion. I am a newbie in this field. 

(I think this is the name of the donor part or is it perhaps the winding pinion? Anyhow, is simply recovering one piece to complete it again)

Edited July 25, 2021 by Soleil

[JohnR725]

19 minutes ago, Soleil said:

I am a newbie in this field.

usually for the new people we recommend starting with the basic watch like a 6497. so you you can taken apart put it back together a couple times get a feel for things. Usually chronographs come later.

then your watch is still in the case it doesn't even look like it's ever been removed it looks like the dial is still there?

 

20 minutes ago, Soleil said:

standard chronograph,

it would be really nice to see the front of this watch photograph is needed. Then what makes you think it's a chronograph because I'm not seeing chronograph components?

22 minutes ago, Soleil said:

if someone can tell me where I can buy a replacement and how to determine the size of the cannon pinion.

it would be helpful if you'd give us some information. Like under the balance wheel there is a symbol with a number we need a really good picture of that figure out who made this watch.

 

[Soleil]

57 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

usually for the new people we recommend starting with the basic watch like a 6497. so you you can taken apart put it back together a couple times get a feel for things. Usually chronographs come later.

then your watch is still in the case it doesn't even look like it's ever been removed it looks like the dial is still there?

Actually, I've bought 5 quartz movements to begin with, however, this watch I got in a charity shop and it seemed broken (the hand marking seconds was loose and so was one of the dials hands). I assumed it was a chronograph because it appears to have two small very basic dials followed by the date.

Quote

it would be really nice to see the front of this watch photograph is needed. Then what makes you think it's a chronograph because I'm not seeing chronograph components?

it would be helpful if you'd give us some information. Like under the balance wheel there is a symbol with a number we need a really good picture of that figure out who made this watch.

 

It appeared to be a chronograph based on the dials but perhaps it is simply some other type (maybe a similar version to an ETA movement?) After these pictures were taken I removed a few more donor parts including the bridge in order to find out if there was a caliber number albeit without avail. Only found on the base two letters "NN" in a circle. I suspect it may be a replica watch. I simply got it because I really would like to fix it and wear it whether it is authentic or not, just like the design very much. 

I'll take a photo of the dial in the morning and post it.

Would deeply appreciate it if you can help me as I cannot bring myself to leave it broken nor discard it.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Soleil

[Soleil]

24 minutes ago, Soleil said:

Actually, I've bought 5 quartz movements to begin with, however, this watch I got in a charity shop and it seemed broken (the hand marking seconds was loose and so was one of the dials hands). I assumed it was a chronograph because it appears to have two small very basic dials followed by the date.

It appeared to be a chronograph based on the dials but perhaps it is simply some other type (maybe a similar version to an ETA movement?) After these pictures were taken I removed a few more donor parts including the bridge in order to find out if there was a caliber number albeit without avail. Only found on the base two letters "NN" in a circle. I suspect it may be a replica watch. I simply got it because I really would like to fix it and wear it whether it is authentic or not, just like the design very much. 

I'll take a photo of the dial in the morning and post it.

Would deeply appreciate it if you can help me as I cannot bring myself to leave it broken nor discard it.

This is the piece I recall losing, now the question is if it is indeed the cannon pinion (as it is usually joined by a wheel) or the winding pinion. Quite confused to be honest, didn't get a chance to see where it was positioned as it sprang out in a split second and disappeared.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Soleil

[jdm]

6 hours ago, Soleil said:

 It appears to be a standard chronograph, and I would appreciate it if someone can tell me where I can buy a replacement. 

That is a cheap Chinese movement, parts are not available. They are a poor choice for beginners because of poor quality (with few exceptions) they break easily and cannot be repaired. See however if you can identify the complete mov.t on Cousins UK or AliExpress. 

Also, we have a section here where it's considered polite for new members to introduce themselves firts. 

[Klassiker]

When you are just beginning, you lose a lot of parts, and you believe them to be lost forever. The truth is, they are still there, somewhere, and you just haven't looked long or hard enough. A cannon pinion is a relatively large part made of steel. Look in every nook and cranny. Shake out your clothes, your hair, your shoes. Sweep the floor with a magnet, or vacuum with a fine mesh over the nozzle. The screws are usually generic parts. Buy an assortment of movement screws.

[jdm]

20 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

When you are just beginning, you lose a lot of parts, and you believe them to be lost forever. The truth is, they are still there, somewhere, and you just haven't looked long or hard enough.

True. However, considering that time spent searching is quite miserable it should be avoided altogether. A beginner should be taught first on why parts are lost.

The initial mistake is always the work not being at least at chest level, because one is not metodic enough to rise the desk or lower the seat.

And then, no mat becuase who cares that's just a cheap broken watch. No covered tray because I can't be bothered to improvise one. No loupe as I have good sight.

The result is guaranteed, imagine how many watches have been done with even before coming to genuine parts breaking. 

[Soleil]

5 hours ago, jdm said:

That is a cheap Chinese movement, parts are not available. They are a poor choice for beginners because of poor quality (with few exceptions) they break easily and cannot be repaired. See however if you can identify the complete mov.t on Cousins UK or AliExpress. 

Also, we have a section here where it's considered polite for new members to introduce themselves firts. 

Agreed, didn't think it was an expensive movement - nevertheless, managed to dismantle further components without any issues, each remaining intact. The interest is solely on wearing it. I've checked Cousins UK before although how can I identify the type of movement? Is there a specific website where I see the types (as there are a lot of movements).

Did introduce myself in the new members section before posting this question. Nice to meet you 

[Soleil]

4 hours ago, Klassiker said:

When you are just beginning, you lose a lot of parts, and you believe them to be lost forever. The truth is, they are still there, somewhere, and you just haven't looked long or hard enough. A cannon pinion is a relatively large part made of steel. Look in every nook and cranny. Shake out your clothes, your hair, your shoes. Sweep the floor with a magnet, or vacuum with a fine mesh over the nozzle. The screws are usually generic parts. Buy an assortment of movement screws.

I did search for three days in a row hence nothing. This is the first piece without including two screws I completely lost, had a similar incident with two decorative fake crystals for a watch with the " Next " brand I was changing the batteries for, and strange enough as tiny as they appeared managed to find them next to eachother below the seat the following day. Glued them on the band and returned it without a problem. 

 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, Soleil said:

Agreed, didn't think it was an expensive movement - nevertheless, managed to dismantle further components without any issues, each remaining intact.

When taking apart a mov.t remove it from the case first. 

Quote

The interest is solely on wearing it.

You can buy similar watches for very little money on AliExpress. These normally won't run for very long, but that indeed is not a stict requirement for wearing a watch. 

Quote

I've checked Cousins UK before although how can I identify the type of movement? Is there a specific website where I see the types (as there are a lot of movements).

You need to be patient and learn first what is what by going over the list one at the time. Then as you will learn about terminology, looks and features you will be able to navigate the vast world of horology with more speed and confidence. 

[Soleil]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

When taking apart a mov.t remove it from the case first. 

 

You can buy similar watches for very little money on AliExpress. These normally won't run for very long, but that indeed is not a stict requirement for wearing a watch. 

You need to be patient and learn first what is what by going over the list one at the time. Then as you will learn about terminology, looks and features you will be able to navigate the vast world of horology with more speed and confidence. 

I've checked AliExpress, the prices seem decent but are they reliable? (Have you bought items from them?) I simply want to purchase the missing piece yet, never imagined it would have been so complicated. 

Have definitely learned a lesson from this and will take all the time needed to learn every single component with its function.

Do you have any further suggestions to where I can find various types of movements?

Thank you very much for taking the time in clarifying things, deeply appreciate it.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Soleil

[JohnR725]

 

59 minutes ago, Soleil said:

simply want to purchase the missing piece yet, never imagined it would have been so complicated.

it looks like you're learning important lessons in watch repair. then your learning on something that's disposable which is also very good. Occasionally we will have people start off with expensive watches or prized family watches. Then discover that parts aren't always available for variety reasons. Even replacement movements aren't necessarily available. There's an unfortunate reality of disassembling something complicated like a watch it may be it will never run again components may never be available and it may not be a pleasant experience which is why research is usually required before disassembly.

 

1 hour ago, Soleil said:

Do you have any further suggestions to where I can find various types of movements?

this is really a interesting question that doesn't actually have an exacting answer. Finding components that go into a watch, watch movements or anything even related to watches is a science and art all in itself. Unfortunately there is no one magical place that has everything.

then depending upon the discussion group you're on their ask he may be a resource page or something equivalent on the website we don't seem to have one? Then that usually means there's a discussion someplace with lots of those.

so in the absence of somebody already doing the work for you the most common way of finding anything online is with your favorite search engine entering in something like watch movements and going to the list. EBay is a very popular source sooner or later almost everything shows up on eBay just have to be really patient.

Then there's still the other of the problem we have in order to find anything you do need to know what exactly it is you're searching for?

.So in the absence of that minor little problem of which movement you have let's look online search for watch movements and there is a name I recognize. As you can see they have movements lots of them.

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-movements/

 

 

 

 

[Soleil]

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

it looks like you're learning important lessons in watch repair. then your learning on something that's disposable which is also very good. Occasionally we will have people start off with expensive watches or prized family watches. Then discover that parts aren't always available for variety reasons. Even replacement movements aren't necessarily available. There's an unfortunate reality of disassembling something complicated like a watch it may be it will never run again components may never be available and it may not be a pleasant experience which is why research is usually required before disassembly.

 

this is really a interesting question that doesn't actually have an exacting answer. Finding components that go into a watch, watch movements or anything even related to watches is a science and art all in itself. Unfortunately there is no one magical place that has everything.

then depending upon the discussion group you're on their ask he may be a resource page or something equivalent on the website we don't seem to have one? Then that usually means there's a discussion someplace with lots of those.

so in the absence of somebody already doing the work for you the most common way of finding anything online is with your favorite search engine entering in something like watch movements and going to the list. EBay is a very popular source sooner or later almost everything shows up on eBay just have to be really patient.

Then there's still the other of the problem we have in order to find anything you do need to know what exactly it is you're searching for?

.So in the absence of that minor little problem of which movement you have let's look online search for watch movements and there is a name I recognize. As you can see they have movements lots of them.

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-movements/

 

 

 

 

You are right. Eye to detail, knowledge and precision are the best bet.

Looked on eBay and there is an enormous selection of movements parts including originals.

I am beginning to think that perhaps I described the wrong component (as they both do look somewhat similar), it's possible that it is the one marked below. A winding pinion maybe? Does it come in an universal size at all? Just asking in case.

Thank you very much for your time in explaining, truly appreciate it.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Soleil

[jdm]

6 hours ago, Soleil said:

it's possible that it is the one marked below. A winding pinion maybe? 

That has been answered above already:

No parts (except maybe the stem)  for Chinese watches are available or "universal".

[Soleil]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

That has been answered above already:

No parts (except maybe the stem)  for Chinese watches are available or "universal".

Ok, thank you very much.

Can you please tell me if this component is named as a winding pinion? Just for knowledge purposes.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Soleil

[Soleil]

2 hours ago, Soleil said:

Ok, thank you very much.

Can you please tell me if this component is named as a winding pinion? Just for knowledge purposes.

Jmd,

Just to add, this looks identical to the one I am dealing with which supports on what you said about the make.

Can I ask one last question, did you or anyone ordered any watch movement/part from China? If yes, are there any other additional postage expenses apart from the price and mentioned postal cost?

Would greatly appreciate it, and thank you again for the help.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Soleil

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Soleil said:

Can I ask one last question, did you or anyone ordered any watch movement/part from China? If yes, are there any other additional postage expenses apart from the price and mentioned postal cost?

one of the things that I don't see use under your name your location. As you using it eBay UK listing I will assume you're in the UK. The problem with asking the question about additional costs is depends upon where you are. The other thing in addition to additional costs are depending upon where you are ordering from China sometimes can take a very long time.

But you've now done the hard part you've identified your movement what if you go to eBay UK and you search for 2813 movement.? Well literally thousands of them because casually this looks like it might be a clone of something? Then because you're in the UK or at least I'm not assume that what if you restrict the search to stuff in just the UK. Which sometimes is misleading when ordering from Chinese companies can sometimes they'll say they're in the UK bur really not or in my case in the US and they're not. But restricting it just to the UK there are people with movements. The first one I found at the link below is the very cheapest all the rest are considerably more.

usually when I'm buying something from eBay a look at the reviews of the seller the sellers getting hundred percent reviews that's good. I look at the items the sellers selling typically Chinese sellers will sell everything which means they have zero idea what they're selling but it appears to be this person selling watch stuff. You can also verify by looking at the other  stuff this person has.

the case now that you have a movement number what happens if you go to your favorite Internet search engine and search? Then you find all the movements closely just about everyone sells this. Even find the second link is been discussed before here. You will notice that even in the tone of the discussion there seems to be in unhappiness with Chinese movements? But there does seem to be like in the second link if you Chinese movement is in a case with the name of another company then there will be a considerably more unhappiness. It's generally frowned upon to have fake watches. But we'll just ignore that it's just a warning that people tend to be unhappy about those things.

On 7/25/2021 at 5:47 PM, Soleil said:

I assumed it was a chronograph because it appears to have two small very basic dials followed by the date.

then before you get super excited there is another problem? The original discussion I brought it up this is a chronograph or so you thought which of course it's not. But you said it had additional dials and is yet I don't recall seeing a picture of the dial yet? Now the problem is if you are looking at just the backside of the movement and you really do have additional dials this movement does not. Fortunately when you look up the movement and see all the suppliers selling the movement they typically selling other Chinese movements and you could see the front side and perhaps find the movement you actually have. As because backsides of movements can all look the same and not be the same on the front side.which is why we keep coming back to it's really important to know what you're working on if you would like to successfully get a new movement and/or parts.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124678799121?hash=item1d076f7f11:g:xPAAAOSwJI9g4YI5

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/11010-dg2813-movement/

 

 

[Soleil]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

one of the things that I don't see use under your name your location. As you using it eBay UK listing I will assume you're in the UK. The problem with asking the question about additional costs is depends upon where you are. The other thing in addition to additional costs are depending upon where you are ordering from China sometimes can take a very long time.

But you've now done the hard part you've identified your movement what if you go to eBay UK and you search for 2813 movement.? Well literally thousands of them because casually this looks like it might be a clone of something? Then because you're in the UK or at least I'm not assume that what if you restrict the search to stuff in just the UK. Which sometimes is misleading when ordering from Chinese companies can sometimes they'll say they're in the UK bur really not or in my case in the US and they're not. But restricting it just to the UK there are people with movements. The first one I found at the link below is the very cheapest all the rest are considerably more.

usually when I'm buying something from eBay a look at the reviews of the seller the sellers getting hundred percent reviews that's good. I look at the items the sellers selling typically Chinese sellers will sell everything which means they have zero idea what they're selling but it appears to be this person selling watch stuff. You can also verify by looking at the other  stuff this person has.

the case now that you have a movement number what happens if you go to your favorite Internet search engine and search? Then you find all the movements closely just about everyone sells this. Even find the second link is been discussed before here. You will notice that even in the tone of the discussion there seems to be in unhappiness with Chinese movements? But there does seem to be like in the second link if you Chinese movement is in a case with the name of another company then there will be a considerably more unhappiness. It's generally frowned upon to have fake watches. But we'll just ignore that it's just a warning that people tend to be unhappy about those things.

then before you get super excited there is another problem? The original discussion I brought it up this is a chronograph or so you thought which of course it's not. But you said it had additional dials and is yet I don't recall seeing a picture of the dial yet? Now the problem is if you are looking at just the backside of the movement and you really do have additional dials this movement does not. Fortunately when you look up the movement and see all the suppliers selling the movement they typically selling other Chinese movements and you could see the front side and perhaps find the movement you actually have. As because backsides of movements can all look the same and not be the same on the front side.which is why we keep coming back to it's really important to know what you're working on if you would like to successfully get a new movement and/or parts.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124678799121?hash=item1d076f7f11:g:xPAAAOSwJI9g4YI5

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/11010-dg2813-movement/

 

 

Did look on Amazon and found a couple of them there as well.

The last time I bought anything from China it was a very long time ago; materials for a sculpture and back then, there were no additional delivery charges hence to why I asked the question. To the present day, ordering things seem way too complicated and a great hassle, so I'll give it a miss.

Yes, I am from the UK.

The dial part did cross my mind too though it is just mainly for the missing piece.

Apologies for forgetting to attach the dial, as previously mentioned it is a replica albeit a pretty good one with a lovely design. Please don't mind the second hand nor the other two missing components I've removed.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Soleil

[Soleil]

The strange thing is the dial ring on the watch with the numbers (from the original design) is a chronometer and the small dials give an impression of a chronograph, so which one is it?

Edited July 27, 2021 by Soleil

[JohnR725]

46 minutes ago, Soleil said:

chronometer and the small dials give an impression of a chronograph, so which one is it?

the reality is it's neither. chronometer refers to usually simplistically a very precision timepiece. Something that would keep time to within seconds per weeks months. Usually there very very expensive. Chronograph is used to record time simplistically I have a link below. you can look at the pictures the movements inside you'll see that chronographs have lots of additional components. Which is why anyone who looked at your watch knew was not a chronograph there is no chronograph components.

then there's even companies out there that make fake chronographs they look like a chronograph but they don't actually function like one for people who want to have a chronograph without having to pay for one. I've seen this on Amazon from time to time you read the description and cleverly is worded that it's not really a chronograph

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronograph

[Soleil]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

the reality is it's neither. chronometer refers to usually simplistically a very precision timepiece. Something that would keep time to within seconds per weeks months. Usually there very very expensive. Chronograph is used to record time simplistically I have a link below. you can look at the pictures the movements inside you'll see that chronographs have lots of additional components. Which is why anyone who looked at your watch knew was not a chronograph there is no chronograph components.

then there's even companies out there that make fake chronographs they look like a chronograph but they don't actually function like one for people who want to have a chronograph without having to pay for one. I've seen this on Amazon from time to time you read the description and cleverly is worded that it's not really a chronograph

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronograph

As long as the time and calendar would work, the other small dials (regardless what they are and do) can remain for decorative purposes only. Would the 2813 movement still qualify?

Honestly, this watch is an exception.

Just want the time to function and wear it. In the future, will consider making a personal watch with a good genuine movement (Swiss). Until then, will focus on the quartz and fixing this one without including the sheer amount of learning to do on all the movements.

Thank you again for being very helpful.