Omega 55* seconds pinion oiling

[JohnC]

Hi folks,

I am working on an Omega 552. The basic movement is together and running fine, but I now have to add the seconds pinion, which is held in place with a small spring.

I have been told elsewhere not to oil the back side of the pinion, where it contacts the spring. OK, but how about the bushing side? Can anyone advise about this? I know at least one person here has posted about the 500 series before, but I cannot find the thread.

I have found documentation for this movement (or, to be precise, the 551 - which I believe is just the chronometer version of this), which discusses the automatic works in detail but does not give advice about base movement oiling.

Many thanks in advance.

Edited April 16, 2021 by JohnC
Typo

[Nucejoe]

28 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have been told elsewhere not to oil the back side of the pinion, where it contacts the spring. OK, but how about the bushing side? 

I wouldn't listen to whoever said that   and oil & epilame. 

 

[Jon]

35 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Hi folks,

I am working on an Omega 552. The basic movement is together and running fine, but I now have to add the sub-seconds pinion, which is held in place with a small spring.

I have been told elsewhere not to oil the back side of the pinion, where it contacts the spring. OK, but how about the bushing side? Can anyone advise about this? I know at least one person here has posted about the 500 series before, but I cannot find the thread.

I have found documentation for this movement (or, to be precise, the 551 - which I believe is just the chronometer version of this), which discusses the automatic works in detail but does not give advice about base movement oiling.

Many thanks in advance.

A sub second pinion on a 552?

Forgive me, but I thought this was a centre seconds sweep second movemnt?

[JohnC]

@Jon of course you are right - not sure why I wrote "sub" in there! Just a brain slip.

[JohnR725]

One of the problems we have with this is Omega is not entirely helpful. If you look up the 552 they will refer you back to the 550 and if you download the tech sheet it's only the parts list. Then unhelpful it refers you to another document where they group all the common things together. But that does not have lubrication of the basic caliper only specialty items and this is not considered a specialty item.

One of the problems subjects like this are hard to find on the discussion group of fast discussion is how would it be titled? I know we have discussed it before just not finding it. Also the other problem is there are variations to this part. In other words some of them have an upper pivots in a jewel which you probably would lubricate but would you lubricate the spring for instance? So conveniently are not finding anything at all.

 

363_Omega 550 NewLR cousins UK.pdf

[canthus]

You might find this of interest re 550 series.  Not much on oiling c/sec pinion spring though.

Cal History and Info.pdf

[canthus]

Seem to remember that the spring should not be over lubed.  i gather there needs to be some friction to stop it overrunning as it ticks over but not too much to make it judder.

I have a note from somewhere I can't recall where (possibly from Cal 1022 which apparently may be similar to 550 as scribbled on same piece of paper!!), which states,

"Adjust it (the spring) so that it has enough tension that once you lift it. the gear train spins just a little but not too much when the pallet fork is out.  You want the centre (second?) wheel to turn about about half a rotation when you do this. You want to get crazy,  epilame those two parts (spring and pinion) and a little 9010 will keep you out of prison",

Wording in brackets is mine not in the original note !!

Hope this helps a little.

Edited April 16, 2021 by canthus

[mikepilk]

I had the same dilemma with my cal 565. I ended up putting the tiniest smear of oil (9010) under the spring.

I hate those springs - very easy to accidently bend, and then break, trying to get the correct pressure on the pinion. And of course, being Omega, not cheap to replace.

Too little pressure and the second hand judders, too much and it kills you amplitude.

 

[JohnC]

@canthus your past self was wise to write that down! Many thanks. @mikepilk yes it's a slightly annoying system - going to be more so when I have to put the seconds hand back on. @JohnR725 yeah, the documentation is pretty obscure on this point. What I am hearing here is lube both sides with 9010 very lightly. Seems like the right intuition to me. If I hear differently I will let you guys know.

 

[JohnC]

@jdm I found your thread - what did you do on this point? Thanks.

[JohnC]

From a respected (WOSTEP) authority: low-torque oil on the bushing side, no oil (or extremely light) on the spring side. The spring should be tight enough to gather (hold up) 1-1.5 turns of the fourth wheel when the pallets are removed and you wind the ratchet wheel a few clicks.

[Knebo]

On 4/16/2021 at 8:15 PM, mikepilk said:

I had the same dilemma with my cal 565. I ended up putting the tiniest smear of oil (9010) under the spring.

I hate those springs - very easy to accidently bend, and then break, trying to get the correct pressure on the pinion. And of course, being Omega, not cheap to replace.

Too little pressure and the second hand judders, too much and it kills you amplitude.

 

Oh dear. I didn't think this element was so tricky. Good that I have this heads-up and before re-assembling.. thanks!

 

On 4/17/2021 at 11:46 PM, JohnC said:

From a respected (WOSTEP) authority: low-torque oil on the bushing side, no oil (or extremely light) on the spring side. The spring should be tight enough to gather (hold up) 1-1.5 turns of the fourth wheel when the pallets are removed and you wind the ratchet wheel a few clicks.

Alright. So HP1300 for the bushing-side, I guess. I'm a bit surprised (would have used 9010), but ok.

Thanks for sharing!

[Knebo]

Well, well, well, I thought I had finished my service of the 551...but the seconds hand ruined my day. It's stopping, ticking, jumping all over the place. I definitely bent the pinion spring . 

I found this video -- indicating the correct angle of the spring. Maybe helpful for others. 

I'll try to get the correct bend at some point this weekend and will report back. Wish me luck please. 

 

[mikepilk]

On 7/11/2023 at 10:24 AM, Knebo said:

Alright. So HP1300 for the bushing-side, I guess. I'm a bit surprised (would have used 9010), but ok.

Thanks for sharing!

Where did you see to use HP1300? I've only ever used 9010 on centre seconds.

[Knebo]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

Where did you see to use HP1300? I've only ever used 9010 on centre seconds.

My bad. 

I was sure I had read that recommendation in this thread, but I don't see you now as I look back. I was actually assembling the seconds pinion on my 552 yesterday night and also used 9010. Makes more sense. 

[Knebo]

14 hours ago, Knebo said:

Well, well, well, I thought I had finished my service of the 551...but the seconds hand ruined my day. It's stopping, ticking, jumping all over the place. I definitely bent the pinion spring . 

I found this video -- indicating the correct angle of the spring. Maybe helpful for others. 

I'll try to get the correct bend at some point this weekend and will report back. Wish me luck please. 

 

Pheeew, I managed to bend it into shape with two tweezers. Nerve-wracking... 

But it worked out and now it's sweeping nicely without any effect on amplitude. 

I'm very happy.