Movement holder made with 3D printer

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, Waggy said:

Thingiverse link:

Very nice looking holder.  However, utilitarian guy that I am, it takes too long to print.    I rendered with a "high speed" profile and it still takes 1hr and 15 minutes to print.  I reduced the height to 20mm and got the print time down to 56 minutes.  Then reducing the base OD gets it down to 44 minutes.  All of these times are tolerable.  I tend to start on a watch and then go print a precise holder and I want that quickly.

Mine takes 18 minutes.

Aside from the time (which is my nit issue), it is a beautiful design and very well done.

[Waggy]

Feeling quite inspired by my parametric CAD triumph....looking for new stuff to design, any ideas?

18 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

it takes too long to print.

Good point and thanks for the feedback, however, I have to get a slot on my son's printer, so the negotiation and bullying to get my stuff printed takes far longer than the actual print, so never the limiting factor in the process, but now I have my own printer on the way I guess I'll have to start taking it into account.

[JohnR725]

23 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

Off topic, sort, but I intend at some point to 3D Print a clock. 

Are you going to design the clock that you're going to print or are you going to print existing clock?

[Michael1962]

I'm not up to designing a clock yet @JohnR725. Maybe one day, but at the moment, no.

Was something that crossed my mind though. I have downloaded the files for quite a few, but there is always something that I am not that sold on in each of them.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Michael1962

[Waggy]

21 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

print a precise holder

Just a question on the method you use to size the holder, for best results do you take the OD of the movement and then print the pocket in the holder to precisely match that OD, or do you add a little or remove a little to allow the holder to grip it? If you add or remove a little, could you share how much?

[GuyMontag]

6 hours ago, Waggy said:

Just a question on the method you use to size the holder, for best results do you take the OD of the movement and then print the pocket in the holder to precisely match that OD, or do you add a little or remove a little to allow the holder to grip it? If you add or remove a little, could you share how much?

I notice in the spreadsheet it says, "Set this to the value of the movement holder + a little bit". I was also wondering how much that would be.

[LittleWatchShop]

20 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

a little bit

This is to compensate for printing error.  My printer tends to make inside cuts a little smaller than the design.  It gets worse the smaller the hole.  So "a little bit" for me is typically 0.2 to 0.3mm

[GuyMontag]

12 hours ago, Waggy said:

Feeling quite inspired by my parametric CAD triumph....looking for new stuff to design, any ideas?

 

I've had this idea for a while now, ever since I became very frustrated while assembling the automatic works in the AS 1916.  It is used in a number of other AS movements and other companies that used the movement (eg, Bulova). This was designed by a masochist and I've seen a number of other posts on the interwebs that share my frustration with this diabolical component.

 

This issue is that the two springs are applying force to the stop click on the left and the reverser on the right, both of which are simultaneously engaged with the large reduction gear,  and the slightest touch, breath or thought will disengage the whole thing before or while placing the upper bridge on the lower bridge.

Bulova used the AS1916 as their caliber 11BSACB and in the tech sheet they show a jig that they used to sell (I've never been able to find one) to help with the assembly. The below photo shows it although you can't really see how it would help. However, in the text the secret sauce sounds like it is the two "stop pins" or posts (in red in my photo) that will keep the spring tension off of the two parts so that it should be easy to then place and screw down the upper bridge. Then when you lift the automatic works out of the jig, the posts disengage with the springs and the springs then engage the two parts while everything is now securely held between the two bridges.

I'm not really sure how one would design the jig off of the parts but I'm sure someone smarter than me could do it

Edited November 28, 2023 by GuyMontag

[watchweasol]

Hi. One way to jig it would to place the plate on a base and mark the plate screw holes and fit two pins., this holds the plate stable. Next fit one spring held in with a piece of rodico and it’s adjacent part then  when all in place with a sharp tool take the tension off the click aNd mark the spot. Repeat with the other spring.  You now have the makings of the jig with the two steady pins in. All that needs to be done is to fit the two pins to de tension the click springs. Job done, and it’s ready for use.     Just an idea.

[RichardHarris123]

I may be misunderstanding the problem but couldn't a clip be fashioned, like when installing an English lever in a a full plate movement?  

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

This is to compensate for printing error.  My printer tends to make inside cuts a little smaller than the design.  It gets worse the smaller the hole.  So "a little bit" for me is typically 0.2 to 0.3mm

Just as a reminder for everybody 3-D printers can have interesting issues. When I was building my First 3-D printer quite a while back I purchased the plastic components off of eBay. Then many months later when I went to assemble my printer I was very unhappy about something. It turns out the plastic components had obviously been printed on two separate printers and because of that things didn't quite fit the way they were supposed to. Basically it made the 3-D printed components almost totally worthless. Plus it was way out of the time span for complaining. Fortunately enough time of gone by that the original company had switched to laser cut plywood and for hundred dollars I could buy upgrade kit and switch to plywood which worked out really nice.

This is where if you really get obsessed about sizing dimensions there is a variety of calibration procedures. Like when you change your filament give verify that your extruder actually was extruding the correct amount of filament. Plus measuring standard printed objects verify that they're actually printing in the XYZ dimension in the right dimensions.

So basically it means a standard object may not actually print exactly the same size for every single printer.

 

[GuyMontag]

18 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I may be misunderstanding the problem but couldn't a clip be fashioned, like when installing an English lever in a a full plate movement?  

I'm not sure if your comment is directed towards me. If so, I'm not familiar with installing an 'English lever in a full plate movement'.

[JohnR725]

4 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm not familiar with installing an 'English lever in a full plate movement'.

Typically with American full plate 18 size watches in a variety of other full plate watches is a problem with getting the pallet fork in depending upon how the balance is arranged. So it presents a challenge of where some people will assemble the watch upside down to get the pallet fork in first whereas a much nicer way is to fashion clip to hold the pallet fork in and then bring the bridge down with the pallet fork. Of course you do have to be careful to make sure things are proper alignment otherwise you end up with watches with the pallet stones get knocked out or you end up cracking one of the bridge jewels.

The concept is really quite simple just grab a short piece of broken mainspring heat up and folded over like this

Oh and I got fancy on this one I cut a slot in the end so to go over the arbor itself

Then here's the problem of pallet fork has to go in kind of underneath where the balance wheel goes which is why you cannot put the plate down with the pallet fork in place because it will not go in where it's supposed to be.

Here's the clip in place

Here's the alternative version that doesn't have the slot

So basically just a little clip to hold parts on that have to come down with the plate unless a course you want to assemble it upside down which isn't always possible either seems like a nice plan on paper but I was found it didn't work well which is why would prefer to use the clip. So I believe that switch being referred to here something similar could be made

[RichardHarris123]

It was aimed at you and everyone who wants to reply, difficult to explain so I'll look for some pictures and get back to you. 

Cheers Jon, obviously typing at the same time.  You explained far better than I could and the photos help.

[gpraceman]

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I've had this idea for a while now, ever since I became very frustrated while assembling the automatic works in the AS 1916.  It is used in a number of other AS movements and other companies that used the movement (eg, Bulova). This was designed by a masochist and I've seen a number of other posts on the interwebs that share my frustration with this diabolical component.

 

This issue is that the two springs are applying force to the stop click on the left and the reverser on the right, both of which are simultaneously engaged with the large reduction gear,  and the slightest touch, breath or thought will disengage the whole thing before or while placing the upper bridge on the lower bridge.

Bulova used the AS1916 as their caliber 11BSACB and in the tech sheet they show a jig that they used to sell (I've never been able to find one) to help with the assembly. The below photo shows it although you can't really see how it would help. However, in the text the secret sauce sounds like it is the two "stop pins" or posts (in red in my photo) that will keep the spring tension off of the two parts so that it should be easy to then place and screw down the upper bridge. Then when you lift the automatic works out of the jig, the posts disengage with the springs and the springs then engage the two parts while everything is now securely held between the two bridges.

I'm not really sure how one would design the jig off of the parts but I'm sure someone smarter than me could do it

Yes, that auto works is rather a pain.  I have two AS 1902 movements with what looks to be the same auto works. Even one that has some jewels to inflate the jewel count.

In terms of movement holders, I would like to see a nice adjustable one.  Maybe along the lines of the vintage Meyers #58.  It has a few changeable jaws to fit different size and shaped movements.  I manged to get one of these and am liking it so far.  It is nicer than having a whole bunch of holders that only work for one sized movement.

Edited November 28, 2023 by gpraceman

[Waggy]

15 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I'm not really sure how one would design the jig

I have a half memory (maybe my subconscious is blocking it out?) of doing one of these in a rotary watch (?). Unfortunately I don't have one right now, but if you provide some dimensions, I'll give it a go. Only concern is that thin posts/pins printed by 3D printer are very weak, so one would need to glue in a brass or steel pin or something?

Edited November 29, 2023 by Waggy

[SpringMangler]

3 hours ago, Waggy said:

I have a half memory (maybe my subconscious is blocking it out?) of doing one of these in a rotary watch (?). Unfortunately I don't have one right now, but if you provide some dimensions, I'll give it a go. Only concern is that thin posts/pins printed by 3D printer are very weak, so one would need to glue in a brass or steel pin or something?

Your half memory is correct. I curse every time I open a Rotary and see an AS2063/2066 that has this auto works. The swear jar contributions increase significantly. 

Interesting to see that assembly holder. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 hours ago, gpraceman said:

Yes, that auto works is rather a pain.  I have two AS 1902 movements with what looks to be the same auto works. Even one that has some jewels to inflate the jewel count.

In terms of movement holders, I would like to see a nice adjustable one.  Maybe along the lines of the vintage Meyers #58.  It has a few changeable jaws to fit different size and shaped movements.  I manged to get one of these and am liking it so far.  It is nicer than having a whole bunch of holders that only work for one sized movement.

Ooo i do like that holder, maybe I'm concidered a bit sad like trainspotters are. You can tell me, just not to my face . 

[GuyMontag]

8 hours ago, Waggy said:

I have a half memory (maybe my subconscious is blocking it out?) of doing one of these in a rotary watch (?). Unfortunately I don't have one right now, but if you provide some dimensions, I'll give it a go. Only concern is that thin posts/pins printed by 3D printer are very weak, so one would need to glue in a brass or steel pin or something?

I'll take a look and see if I have one in my "to be serviced" pile.

I think the posts only need to be as tall as the spring, so pretty short and stubby. In fact they can't bee too tall or they would interfere with the top bridge when it was placed. They don't have to be round either, they could be longer than they are wide and then on the side of the post opposite the spring, they could taper down, from the top of the post to floor of the jig, which I think would give it some strength.

[watchweasol]

Hi As an aside, someone mentioned the Myers Movement holder with interchangeable jaws as  one of the best. I would think that looking at the design it would be capable of being copied and 3D printed along with the replaceable jaw's. Not having a printer my self but Iam sure you guys could design one for sure. The only extra bits would the nut, and screw to drive the carrier along the base.    I have a watch stand a pick up to fit on my P.C  (tg)  or   (Watch o scope) done on 3D which was done by my nephew. A while back. It uss the piezo disc pick up. 

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

How about one of these and 3d print jaws to attach. 

[gpraceman]

41 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi As an aside, someone mentioned the Myers Movement holder with interchangeable jaws as  one of the best. I would think that looking at the design it would be capable of being copied and 3D printed along with the replaceable jaw's. Not having a printer my self but Iam sure you guys could design one for sure. The only extra bits would the nut, and screw to drive the carrier along the base.    I have a watch stand a pick up to fit on my P.C  (tg)  or   (Watch o scope) done on 3D which was done by my nephew. A while back. It uss the piezo disc pick up.

 

26 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

How about one of these and 3d print jaws to attach.

I was thinking maybe something along the lines of this design with interchangeable jaws.  This design uses two springs, but a central one should be fine to open up the jaws.  Though, a design without guide rods would be nice, so you just need to worry about getting a screw and a spring (and maybe a nut).

The Meyers #58 is a really nice movement holder, but they can be hard to find and go for a really high price when you do.  I was lucky to find one for a great price.  Having a 3D printed option would make it reachable by more people.

[watchweasol]

Hi the reason for introducing this was as mentioned getting hold of a Myers holder is hard work and as graceman said ithe 3 D version would put one within the reach of most people. I believe they would find it beneficial and better than some of the cheaper commercial brands.

[LittleWatchShop]

Working on a ladies watch and needing dial up and dial down holder with stem/crown installed.  Traditional holders are a pain, so I made this.

 

[GuyMontag]

Thanks @LittleWatchShop, your design worked perfectly. Only took about 14 minutes to print and the the hand setting plunger lines up perfectly with the hands.