Kif Elastor 3-2

[noirrac1j]

Finally was able to get the notorious KIF elastor in place. This was the third spring I tried after having broken a wrong one trying to squeeze it in (it looked ALMOST the same!), and having two fly away into oblivion one cold, dark night here in Brooklyn: I curled up into the fetal position and went to sleep after that. Well, I reached out to a great help known as RustyColt around here, and he sent me not one but Three of the correct KIF elastor 3-2 springs for this movement, which is the Bulova 11ANACB. Here are a few pics. The movement remains uncased--I am overloaded with school work right now and unfortunately have to prioritize myself if I want to finish up this year. In any case (no pun intended), I want to say thanks to RustColt for the help in getting the correct spring.

 

Finally got the little bugger in with the help of some super-pointy Erem tweezers and cling wrap.

 

 

Coming together now...and ticking nicely

 

I've worked on some new things and right now I am slowly doing a wrist alarm. I'll post some pics soon

 

 

J

Edited February 20, 2015 by noirrac1j

[clockboy]

Interesting I have the same problem with a Rolex 3135. I have found a replacement but they are like gold dust to find.

[Lawson]

noirrac1j, on 20 Feb 2015 - 1:24 PM, said:

... having two fly away into oblivion one cold, dark night here in Brooklyn: I curled up into the fetal position and went to sleep after that.

 

ROFL!  We all know that feeling ...  somedays I feel like I spend more time on the floor on my hands and knees, than sitting at the work bench.

 

Great post and pics too ... keep'em coming!

[clockboy]

Any tips on fitting these little beauties. Been struggling for the last hour with a KIF elastor and now I think it has dropped into the watch.

Stopped for some caffeine & re-think  :pulling-hair-out: 

[noirrac1j]

Any tips on fitting these little beauties. Been struggling for the last hour with a KIF elastor and now I think it has dropped into the watch.

Stopped for some caffeine & re-think  :pulling-hair-out: 

Hey Clock how are you doing? OK, what I did was place the jewel setting in and then the KIF spring. Cover it immediately with a small piece of cling plastic film, such as Saran wrap or the British equivalent. Take a pair of your finest tweezers and secure one end of the spring ( the end that stays secured in the plate, not the little legs) into the plate--leave the other one just above its slotting position for now. Then carefully hold the attached single end still while you secure the little legs into their slots. What I did then was carefully nudge the spring down (towards its "legs") form the center until you can clear the securing slot on the plate for the other end and it slides under it. I also hudged it very gently side ways a little and it did settle in. I did this with the jewel in-situ as I said and it went fine. Once it is in and secure don't even look at it anymore lest it jump out and dissappear--Sharp tweezers, just one end at a time.

J

Edited February 21, 2015 by noirrac1j

[clockboy]

Thanks noirrac I have not tried the cling film trick but tried about everything else. Unfortunately only had two replacement springs and after 4 hours of trying to fit they both got bent. The problem I have, & I don,t know if this is unique to Rolex but at the securing lug there is also a pointed section that also secures the spring & for the life of me I cannot get it to fit over this lug without it flying. I have attached a poor drawing to explain better.

My next move I was going to try before the last one bent was to try and set up my Seize jeweling tool to see if I can secure it that way.

 

 

 

 

[bobm12]

I wish I could help here but I'm not there yet! I hope everything works out in the end clockboy. I'm learning from this post!

[autowind]

I have lost/broken more of little devils than I care to think about,  I'm sure it's something one gets better at with practice, but it can be very frustrating.

 

One has to ask the question as to why so many different types are made,  I'm sure they all perform about the same and if any of them are better than Incabloc then I'd be surprised.

[bobm12]

The more expensive perform better...for the seller. :)

[clockboy]

It is strange Autowind. It also makes it difficult deciding what actual design of spring you need. Although I tried and failed fitting they are Elastor style. Have ordered 5 more from Cousins + another couple of Rolex springs from Croatia. 

In future if servicing a Rolex again I will use an Auto oiler for the escape wheel just toooo much agro lifting the clip for the oiling.

Purists might disappear but !!!!!!!!

[MortenS]

It is strange Autowind. It also makes it difficult deciding what actual design of spring you need. Although I tried and failed fitting they are Elastor style. Have ordered 5 more from Cousins + another couple of Rolex springs from Croatia. 

In future if servicing a Rolex again I will use an Auto oiler for the escape wheel just toooo much agro lifting the clip for the oiling.

Purists might disappear but !!!!!!!!

My first Rolex i served was a cal 3035 some years ago. The Kif springs on the escape wheel broke in two after taking the endstones out for oiling. They gave me big problems. After i talked to a friend of mine that work with servicing Rolex, he told me to don’t touch the Kif springs and just oil the escape wheel stones from underneath. This tip has helped me out of many problems with 3035 and 3135.

 

Morten  

[noirrac1j]

I am beginning to think that it is always a better idea to leave the KIF in place rather than risk losing or breaking one. It is a consession (and that ends in a functional watch) to a conventional overhaul I am wilking to make when it comes to these spring types. I just lost another KIF just a few days ago: this time it was a trior.

 

JC

[MortenS]

When you lose or brake one. The trick is to put the jewels in first and then you lay the the new spring on top of the jewel, lined up perfectly. Then you slide the spring and click in its position.

 

Morten

[Irishcain]

I'll be using this trick! I think my high count on lost springs is 4 in one sitting! lol

[clockboy]

Joe,s clingfilm tip worked for me. Although I erred on caution and used an auto oiler on the bottom jewel. I aligned as best as possible covered with the cling film and then I held it in place with an old oiler got one of the lever edges in first then to two front clips then manoeuvred the final lever in. I double checked all was OK with a microscope.

 

I am not totally happy with this method as I like to know I have definitely removed any old oil but !!!!!!

Edited March 4, 2015 by clockboy

[bobm12]

Excellent clockboy, the best part: problem solved. I'm sure you'll smooth out the details later and clean this act further as we all do when on a fist time!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[icius]

I can personally attest to the clingwrap method now.  I recently had to oil the end stones on an ST 1686 with KIF Trior springs.  I cut about a 2 inch square piece of clingwrap and held it flat down over the movement with my left hand while I worked on the spring with my right under a 10x loupe.  

 

Both the removal and the re-installation of the spring went without incident or drama.  

 

Not sure if this is a good method or not, but I use the tip of a .60 mm screwdriver to remove and re-install the springs.  I hold it an an angle and push against one of the legs to get it to rotate counter clockwise,  I just keep rotating until all three legs have come up out of the access slot.  Same method for re-installing but clockwise.  I suppose the direction doesn't matter but I have "righty tighty, lefty loosey" stuck in my head :)

[perpetual92]

Do you folks have any idea where I can get a endstone for the escape wheel kif setting for a Rolex 3135?

[noirrac1j]

What size is the KIF spring in that Rolex?

 

J

[clockboy]

I got the replacement spring part from Cousins I think it was a 3-3/KIF ELASTIC. The end stone you will have to measure & Cousins will be your best bet.

[perpetual92]

Clockboy, thanks for the info on the 3-3 Kif Elastor spring. I will buy a few as I know I will need them..lol.

 

As far as the end stone size I'm wondering if Cousins has any cross reference on the Kif endstones for Rolex 3135.

 

Its gotta be a fairly common purchase as these stones also can get away :(.

 

In the future its an auto oiler on the escape shock settings. 

[perpetual92]

Also, I see cousins has a Rolex Kif pdf.  It says a 3-3 elastor spring on a 3030 (they dont have any info on 3135) but not sure if the #516 endstone part is for the Balance or for the Escape setting.

 

Clockboy, you mentioned a 3-3 Elastor for the Escape shock setting?  They do list that the 3-3 spring would also have the #516 endstone.

[clockboy]

I am not to sure someone who works on Rolex,s on a regular basis might be able to help. 

http://www.rolexforums.com    Might also be of some help. 

[perpetual92]

Thanks- will do. 

[JohnR725]

This discussion almost looks like it should be of two separate sections too many things at the same time. Basically the escape wheel discussion should be in a separate section.

So spring for holding in jewels aren't always meant to be removed. Then to add to the confusion if you look in the Bestfit book #111 there is a section on shock absorbers. So to help you out they have pictures of various types so you you can attempt to figure out what you have remember this catalog was done in 1961 they've added a few since then and there showing 84 different systems.

 

So typically the spring is that do not come out are found in the gear train,, the escape wheel possibly other jewels and occasionally on really cheap balance wheels. So for these there left in place cleaned in place lubricated for the backside. The cleaning fluid will penetrate where it's supposed to go. If you have the misfortune of disassembling  more than likely it's going to be an entire assembly if you can find it.

So an older version of the Kif catalog can be found here unfortunately it doesn't have the starting part of the book so I've scanned in some of the images of mine.

http://www.phfactor.net/wtf/KIF%20Tech%20Sheets/

So to identify what you have you look at the spring. Notice number 7 on the bottom there is no separate spring because it doesn’t come out. Then once you identify the number of the spring you’re looking for you to look at the cross reference which is interesting in that it’s a little different than most. You find the watch manufacturer you’re supposed to know which spring you have because it’s not listed by the model numbers by the spring number first then the model number. So casually trying to look for something is a lot harder if you don’t know what you’re looking for.

Then as the discussion is for 3 I’ve attached the section on disassembling, assembling and replacement of the spring. Then yes the pictures make it look a lot easier than it is in real life.

Then the section on lubrication. There’s two methods of doing this and for both methods I still recommend removing for cleaning. So the conventional dip oiler. Then if you have an automatic oiler the whole thing can be done assembled. Do not attempt to use a dip oiler when it’s assembled as you’ll never get the lubrication where it’s supposed to go. To understand this I’ve attached an image from the incabloc website found at the link below. The shock jewel assemblies are mounted in a Bloc which usually has a very small hole on the plate side. Then even if you somehow to get the oil past that hole the hole jewel is also in a setting that can also have a really small hole.

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/systeme_incabloc.php

Then too many watches in this discussion. For the Bulova  a bit of a mystery I looked it up on one of the sites I look at and  I get the information below indicating it's not a number three spring but it's number 6 and a different name. If you look in the  PDF catalog it doesn't exist except it's supposed to be equivalent to a  11anac which does exist. It is possible we were variations which is why you need to identify by the spring shape which one it was.

BUL 11ANACB
400/1364
 SHOCK SPRING, UPPER/LOWER
 6-1/KIF ULTRAFLEX
111F-112F/BUL 3AE


ROL 3135
400/1375
 SHOCK SPRING, UPPER/LOWER KIF
 3-3/KIF ELASTOR