Timex M25 date wheel

[JerseyMo]

damn... I should start a youtube channel   nah too much work.

Edited April 9, 2020 by JerseyMo

[Dave84]

10 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

damn... I should start a youtube channel   nah too much work.

It really is, but thank you, the feed really helped.

[AndyHull]

On 3/25/2020 at 8:01 PM, Dave84 said:

Any techniques out there that people use gratefully received ?

Don't forget to fit the dial washer, it is key to ensuring the date ring doesn't jam

I fit the date ring between the four retaining pins, make sure the coppery date click spring is not stuck under the date ring, then place the dial, then look through the gaps round the edges from the rear of the assembly to manipulate the date ring and the date ring click spring  with a pin to ensue the  date ring is sitting between the four retaining pins that stick out of the main plate, and the spring is not jammed underneath the ring, nor the ring jammed between the dial and one or more of the four pins.

Something almost invariably moves when you fit the dial, but don't be tempted to unbend the tabs to start again, just manipulate things through those gaps.

Only once I am happy do I bend over the dial feet completely, since bending those can only be done a very limited number of times before they fail.

It is tricky. Much more so than it first appears.

Edited April 10, 2020 by AndyHull

[Dave84]

2 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Don't forget to fit the dial washer, it is key to ensuring the date ring doesn't jam

I fit the date ring, then place the dial, then look through the gaps round the edges to manipulate the date ring and the date ring click spring  with a pin to ensue the  date ring is sitting between the four retaining pins that stick out of the main plate, and the spring is not jammed underneath.

Only once I am happy do I bend over the dial feet completely, since bending those can only be done a very limited number of times before they fail.

It is tricky. Much more so than it first appears.

Cheers Andy, tell me about it. I am relatively new to working on movements so its a very steep learning curve at the moment for me. I am pleased that I got the movement back together but now upon inspection it looks like the fourth wheel pivot is damaged and I will have to source a new one. Also, the balance isn't turning freely so I have likely missed something or the hairspring is bent. 

I will probably strip it all apart and start again. If nothing else its good practice ..

[AndyHull]

37 minutes ago, Dave84 said:

Also, the balance isn't turning freely so I have likely missed something or the hairspring is bent. 

Check the hairspring.

Check that the vconic bearing screw is neither too loose, nor too tight.

Check that the fixed vconic bearing is not loose.

Check that the balance is not over banked and therefore sitting on the wrong side of the fork.

Check that the fork pins are not bent.

Check all of the usual suspects.

However by far the most common issue is simply dirt, but checking the train runs freely is difficult on these, as it is a major operation to remove the fork and the balance to check the power is getting through the train. It is simpler to just dunk the whole thing in lighter fluid, leave it for an hour or so, then dry it off and try again, rather than attempt to strip it down.

Some times I have had to do this a couple of times before things ease up and start to run smoothly once more.

With a conventional mechanism, you can take it all apart and inspect it, but with these Timex ones, things are a little more hit and miss. Rarely do I find they wont work at all however, unless the fork is damaged, or the hairspring is completely destroyed.

Each time you soak in lighter fluid/naptha, make sure the hairspring is completely dry afterwards and none of the coils are sticking together with lighter fluid before you test once more.

I save any dead mechanisms for parts, as they are actually quite fun to work with once you get the hang of them. I would think I have about a 90% success rate, despite their quirks.

Edited April 10, 2020 by AndyHull

[Dave84]

10 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Check the hairspring.

Check that the vconic bearing screw is neither too loose, nor too tight.

Check that the fixed vconic bearing is not loose.

Check that the balance is not over banked and therefore sitting on the wrong side of the fork.

Check that the fork pins are not bent.

Check all of the usual suspects.

However by far the most common issue is simply dirt, but checking the train runs freely is difficult on these, as it is a major operation to remove the fork and the balance to check the power is getting through the train. It is simpler to just dunk the whole thing in lighter fluid, leave it for an hour or so, then dry it off and try again, rather than attempt to strip it down.

Some times I have had to do this a couple of times before things ease up and start to run smoothly once more.

With a conventional mechanism, you can take it all apart and inspect it, but with these Timex ones, things are a little more hit and miss. Rarely do I find they wont work at all however, unless the fork is damaged, or the hairspring is completely destroyed.

Each time you soak in lighter fluid/naptha, make sure the hairspring is completely dry afterwards and none of the coils are sticking together with lighter fluid before you test once more.

I save any dead mechanisms for parts, as they are actually quite fun to work with once you get the hang of them. I would think I have about a 90% success rate, despite their quirks.

Thanks Andy 

When reassembling the movement I gave everything a soak in lighter fluid, but I will go through the process of elimination starting with the above list, despite the trouble I have had with this movement it has been a lot of fun trying to bring it back to life.

I think the hairspring is slightly bent, on the outer most loop, just before it goes through the regulator, not sure if my previous photos show it clearly enough but I do suspect that, it looks like the escapement is turning as it should when I gently rotate the balance myself. 

[transporter]

Dave, just noticed you are in Plymouth, I'm just across the water, I will have a look in my spares bin and see if I have a spare movement that you could use if needed ok.

[Dave84]

18 hours ago, transporter said:

Dave, just noticed you are in Plymouth, I'm just across the water, I will have a look in my spares bin and see if I have a spare movement that you could use if needed ok.

Hello from across the water! Hope you are safe and well. 

That would be great and very kind of you, thank you !

Let me know if you do and what you want for it. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Dave84

[transporter]

No dramas mate all good this side, they’ll be no charge mate, I’ve had a few things given to me when I’m stuck on this forum, it’s only right I too share the love (so to speak). 
I’ll have a look on Tuesday at the latest, might even be today buy need to keep the wife happy with a few house jobs etc first ok.

[transporter]

Dave I haven’t forgotten about having a look for you, been a tad busy, I’ll search around today and see if I have anything ok, with the balance not turning freely your hairspring does look a little out of shape, the gaps between the coils are bigger on one side than the other.
Might be the where you pinned the hairspring back in a little to far ( pulling it out of shape ) do check the V conic bearing because if the balance staff isn’t sitting bang on in the centre with these it will stop it moving as it should ok mate.

[Dave84]

2 hours ago, transporter said:

Dave I haven’t forgotten about having a look for you, been a tad busy, I’ll search around today and see if I have anything ok, with the balance not turning freely your hairspring does look a little out of shape, the gaps between the coils are bigger on one side than the other.
Might be the where you pinned the hairspring back in a little to far ( pulling it out of shape ) do check the V conic bearing because if the balance staff isn’t sitting bang on in the centre with these it will stop it moving as it should ok mate.

No worries mate,  that's fine I appreciate you taking a look for me. I will have a look at it again today, maybe release the hairspring a tad  to see if it helps, it does look as though the hairspring coil is sat at a slight angle. Sometimes you just need to step away from it a little and come back to it. Hopefully I will have more luck today :-)

[transporter]

Ok mate I’ve had a look, I don’t have a complete movement but do have a few bits, are you requiring any train wheels? I have 1 spare pallet fork and a few barrels with main springs. Only 1 balance but hairspring is out of true I’m afraid. Oh and I’ve a set of plates complete with train but missing balance and dial side odds and sods.
Really thought I had more than that to be honest, if you need any of these items let me know.

[Dave84]

2 hours ago, transporter said:

Ok mate I’ve had a look, I don’t have a complete movement but do have a few bits, are you requiring any train wheels? I have 1 spare pallet fork and a few barrels with main springs. Only 1 balance but hairspring is out of true I’m afraid. Oh and I’ve a set of plates complete with train but missing balance and dial side odds and sods.
Really thought I had more than that to be honest, if you need any of these items let me know.

That's alright mate thanks for taking a look. I need a fourth wheel, mines damaged. I also need a new hairspring, after a look up close today its in pretty bad shape. Everything else is alright.

 Ill have to keep my eyes out for a donor online, they are reasonably priced sometimes. 

[transporter]

I’ll square you away the fourth wheel if want?

[Dave84]

1 minute ago, transporter said:

I’ll square you away the fourth wheel if want?

That would be awesome. Thank you :-) ill pm you the details.