Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Ok I’m putting this out there without really doing any research ( as I can’t find anything ) or measuring the cylinder that I have that is broke.

So, can you make a cylinder for an escapement, I have both plugs in good order. The cylinder has snapped, it’s on a small french drum movement approx 18 cm across and the escarpment is on a platform like a carriage clock.

Im thinking of getting some rod fitted up in the lathe turn it down to the required outside diameter  and marking the cut out and let’s say for arguments sake file away the material, then  mark the centre and fingers crossed there’s a drill bit of the exact diameter needed, drill through the said rod and then part the rod with May be abit of tidying up etc then fit the plugs and then onto escape wheel.

Im guessing the principle is good but no one has attempted this and most will think it’s a worthless exercise, what are your thoughts?

I cannot find clock cylinders on the bay or anywhere on the net, loads of pocket watch ones but no clock ones.

Posted

I make about 1 per year. Drill the rod, turn the outside, part off. I harden and temper now, then polish the inside with wood and lapping paste, same for outside. Shellac onto a close fitting brass bar long enough to hold in a pinvice, grab in pinvice and now you have a nice way to hold it. File the openings (yes it's ok to file hardened and tempered steel) going right through the brass. Deburr and polish the lips that contact the escape tooth impulse plane.

I usually just make new pivots as it's easier than perfectly sizing the new cylinder to the old ones.

Posted

Archie Perkin's book Antique Watch Restoration Volume II has several pages going through the process to make a cylinder as described by Nicklesilver.

If you do have a go at making one please take photos and post your progress.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

Huge thanks for the replies, it will be documented and it will be trial and error just to see how it goes, I did see a post which old hippy answered about changing the cylinder escapement to a lever escapement which is nice to know is possible if everything is fails. I had a play on my Axminster model engineer lathe this morning and turned a rather large balance staff ( as per BHI lesson 9 ) it’s no where near perfect ( pivots ) and isn’t polished as per instructions  but was turned using a cross slide for everything. In future I will do all pivots by hand on my Lorch 6mm!! 

B4ED89ED-439A-4766-B112-68075267C9B4.jpeg

Edited by transporter
  • Like 1
Posted

That looks like a nice job there! I do all my staffs from annealed steel, with the cross slide. I don't do the taper on the hub, or the taper for the roller table, and the pivots are just marked for length but left essentially the same diameter as the adjacent diameter. Then harden and temper, and do the upper pivot freehand, put in the rivet, polish, flip around and do the lower pivot, taper for roller table, and hub, polish up; rivet into balance, then finish pivots in Jacot. Doing the bulk of the work with the cross slide save an enormous amount of time.

Posted

I must admit using the cross side does save time and also cuts nice and true on length of job, but like you I will turn the pivots by hand next time as I’ll get a better job done. 
with ref to the cylinders, what metal do you use for the rod, is it just silver steel?

Posted
9 minutes ago, transporter said:

I must admit using the cross side does save time and also cuts nice and true on length of job, but like you I will turn the pivots by hand next time as I’ll get a better job done. 
with ref to the cylinders, what metal do you use for the rod, is it just silver steel?

Yes, what I think in the UK is silver steel, US would be something like O1 steel, here in Switzerland we use Sandvik 20AP. All oil hardening, all pretty forgiving about little variations in temperature.

Posted

Many thanks for the info, I have some blued steel in small diameters that I bought from a watch fair, I believe the largest size I have is 2mm maybe 3 mm. I will invest in some small silver steel rod and when time allows I’ll have a go at the cylinder.

Posted

Making a cylinder is nothing like making a balance staff. A cylinder is made up of three parts, the center and the two ends which are called plugs. Not easy to make. 

Posted

Yes, I’m happily we’ll versed in these movements I do have quite a few in my collection, admittedly I need to renew a few plugs ( tampons ) but I believe it was you old hippy that pointed me in the right direction when I started on cylinder movements for good information.

I have the two plugs but the cylinder has snapped and I need to make a new cylinder then re fit the plugs 

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Hello and welcome to the fo4um. Enjoy
    • Welcome to the forum, enjoy.
    • You're asking a pretty broad question and you didn't specify the machine but yes it's simple especially if you have the right machine. The question has problems but I'll take it as it is. Is it really that simple yes especially if you have the right machine. So in the video below he's making a screw and yes it really is that simple but pay attention to the machine it is not simple at all probably wasn't cheap but it is small it will probably fit in your garage. Unfortunately wouldn't fit in my garage as it's far too cluttered up with things. In the video he talks about making a screw and pay attention to the machine. The machine has lots and lots and lots of cutters and lots of things to do lots of machining all-in-one machine conceivably one step after another all programmable. If you look at his channel lots of CNC's stuff and there are several other videos related to this machine. He goes to the factory where they talk about it and show all the other machines they make in Switzerland.  I did look up the specifications the machine I don't recall the price it's not going to cut wheels I think it has a maximum diameter around 11 mm basically it's really good for making small diameter watch parts. Then in one of the other videos he goes to a factory that used to make parts with waterpowered machinery been in business for 100 years and everything they now make is made with CNC machines including this one. What was interesting with the factory photo was that when they make some parts they can put them on a optical comparator comparator compares with whatever the reference is and the machine can be programmed to adjust its cutting to make sure everything is actually being made to specifications. Oh and then somewhere in all of this there was at least one picture of a balance staff can't have a CNC Swiss machine without making balance staffs.   It would be really nice if we had pictures of the machine. Then yes if you look at the page for wheel cutting you can enter parameters and it will generate a G code but he left out things? Notice he has a picture of a complete wheel but the G code isn't making a complete wheel it's only cutting the gear teeth I don't see whereas the program for crossing out the spokes? Typically when you see people cutting gears once the teeth are cut most the time the spokes are cut by hand. Occasionally someone will mill them out but typically not with the program which seems strange if you have CNC capability for instance one of my friends fill it used to design assembly line equipment or things to make things. So his hobby was to continue to make tools to make things like clocks. Very interesting and clever clocks but his true fund was making the machines to make the clocks. Then machine is not controlled by G code like we would typically find today as the stepping motor controller he has was made a long time ago and the individual controllers used a textbased program. So the company had a editor you could write a program to cause each the stepping motors to do something. So basically once you figure out how to cut a gear he would just change the parameters for different size gears so here's an example of a gear as you can see we have the teeth and the spokes. Then we have a picture the machine which sucks because it would've been so much nicer if I could've taken a picture when it was cutting a gears so we can see things better. Then yes there is a worm gear stepping motor indexing this is a mini lathe and the indexing is at the end of the lathe head hiding. The basic operation of this machine would be brass sheet not cut to a specific diameter size not even round mounted on the machine. Then it turns and a milling cutter will cut the diameter. Then the gear would be cut with a gear cutter. The same mill cutter for the diameter although conceivably change the size I don't know but basically the same milling for cutting the outer diameter would be used to cut the spokes. I really can't remember how he did the center hole but whatever it was was very precise.          
    • Yeah I know the site and the creator of it.  the two video clips are good examples of the quicker method and a full tear down.  the quick method will work in many cases. But not always and not for all the different movements.  I strongly suggest to not bend the four tabs as was done in the first clip.  Instead there are three tabs that insert into the top plate, Much saver way as to not break a tab.
    • I found a motor that is 3/4 hp and another that is 1.2hp. They come with speed controller. So I don’t think I would need a wiring diagram. But I sure appreciate you offering your help! Do you think 1.2 hp would be too much for a watchmaker’s lathe?
×
×
  • Create New...