Hairspring partially misaligned, touching gear

[Chopin]

I noticed this detail as I was taking the movement down to service but didn't pay too much attention back then. I serviced the movement, wound it up and I noticed that it runs at approx. +200 seconds/24h and also upon closer inspection I could hear the classic sound of hairspring coils touching themselves or something else. I then realised that every few seconds the hairspring seems to be hitting a gear and I also remembered that it was partially misaligned for some reason.

Have looked around at the parts involved and everything seems fine. Balance doesn't seem warped, hairspring is fine, same with the balance staff.

The only detail that seems just a bit weird is the regulator index pin which is just a tad shorter than the ones that I've seen which run all the way to the boot tip. But then again maybe it's designed this way. The hairspring only seems to be misaligned in the regulator area.

[Nucejoe]

1-Raise the stud to level flush with stud carrier plate.

2- Make sure HS is free in regulator slot. 

Lets see if more needs done.

Regards 

 

[Chopin]

I have actually tried adjusting the stud (higher/lower) in the stud plate and it didn't make a difference. I raised it a bit and I think it made it worse...

Have not tried freeing the HS from the regulator. I'll put that on the list.

[watchweasol]

Hi  I  think Joe is on the mark. The balance spring is running out of flat. The coils are concentric and beating ok but the spring is not perfectly flat, If it is clipping the center wheel during operation it will need adjusting around the stud point to bring down the outer coil slightly.

[rogart63]

Check the stud that it is straight. Sometimes the coil have been twisted near the stud. I often have to remove the coil and check that the stud is pointing straight . Also check that the hairspring is sitting horisontell . As it look now the hairspring is going up from the stud. Try very gentle to press it down and see what happens to the rest of the hairspring. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by rogart63

[Chopin]

The stud is straight. The hairspring is horizontal.

I have removed the hairspring from the regulator pin and it's almost level (the hairspring is touching the index; without it it would have been perfectly horizontal probably). It no longer makes any sound and doesn't seem to be hitting the gear.

Could the index pin have a problem ? Is it not supposed to be straight ? Could there be a problem with the stud carrier plate/regulator that might need adjusting ? The pallet fork sits in the center. (I was told that that is a way to tell whether the other regulator tab is in correct position or not)

Edited December 29, 2019 by Chopin

[Nucejoe]

Once HS is free inside the slot, its what watchweasel says, adjusting HS mainly around the stud to bring down the outer coil, sometimes just a push on the HS( gently) around the stud brings it down. 

HS coil is flat, it just needs stand level.

 

 

[Nucejoe]

Yes regulator slot can hold HS and make it stand unlevel.

That pallet fork sits in the center;   you bring impulse pin in beat by moving the stud carrier. 

[Nucejoe]

You got a good coil there, unlikely to foul itself, just  gentle... gentle.

Give top view from the cock side.

 

[Chopin]

I fiddled around with the regulator index pin and I feel like it's closer to  being horizontal but I can still hear the coils colliding. Haven't checked the time accuracy though. 

[watchweasol]

Hi  The regulator boot and its index pin should be parallel .

[Chopin]

Time keepin at the moment seems to be at +20 to +40 seconds (kind of fluctuates). I can still hear a bit of hair spring coil clinging sound but it's not constant. (comes and goes)

The hairspring doesn't seem to stop against the gear. I'm not even sure if it touches it... And if it does it, at most, rubs against it underneath... But I can't see it...

[mikepilk]

38 minutes ago, Chopin said:

I fiddled around with the regulator index pin and I feel like it's closer to  being horizontal but I can still hear the coils colliding. Haven't checked the time accuracy though. 

The stud doesn't look vertical to me in the middle pic.

Is it just the weight of the stud making the spring cone downwards ?

[Chopin]

Yes, it's the weight of the stud. I've checked from all angles. The HS is slightly elevated only in the regulator index/boot area.

Does a normal functioning hairspring make a slight metallic clinging sound or are they supposed to be fully silent ?

[rogart63]

The first bend after the stud  looks it has a little to much bend . Maybe that makes the coils touch . 

[Nucejoe]

 I agree with Rogart and watchweasol. Two faults

1-End curve looks to have bent inward close to the stud. This makes the coil aggregate to one side( not concentric)

2- Vertically, the spring is not paralel to other circles of the coil, close to the stud, That is what makes the coil still sit unlevel.

That it makes an " ing" or "twang" sound, has to do with the fork hitting on impulse jewel, whereas it should role the jewel into motion by imparting impulse to it. Not to worry it is not coming from HS hitting gear and hardly hurts anything. If the entire escape is perfectly adjusted , there be no " ing" when in beat.

Best wishes

 

 

[Chopin]

So should I simply "correct" this area outwards a bit ?

Timekeeping is good by the way. It's at around +10 +15 s/24h.

The noise doesn't sound like pallet fork but coils... Will further experiment tomorrow.

[vinn3]

it looks like the last coil is too wide.    vin

[Chopin]

I have corrected the hairspring in the stud area (might need to do it a bit more) but it made no difference.

The metallic coil clinging sound might be made by some coils touching and not the HS hitting or rubbing against the gear.

The area where the HS is uneven is the regulator area...

[Chopin]

Well guys, I finally solved the issue. Thanks especially to the suggestions of @Nucejoe and @rogart63 with the HS installed in the movement I pressed slightly in the stud area and I managed to straighten it. Time keeping is now even better than it was before.

[Nucejoe]

In cases where  hairspring needs work, I normally instal just the cock and balance assembly on the main plate. I put nothing else on main plate, not the gears , bridges, barrel. Just the cock and balance assembly.

This would give you nearly 300deg round access to the HS, nothing else is there to get in the way. With good access you would have more control over the task of manipulation and this often saves you the risk of removing the HS to work on.

I always do this as soon as the main plate  becomes available after disassembly. Then clean the Cock- balance assembly.if you end up working on the it after movement is assembled ,you are liable to dirty up the assembly which then needs another clean.

This also is the best time to get the stud stand vertical, since you can simultaneously see the results which is, getting the coil to lay level. 

Best

 

Regards.