Elgin balance staff

[JPRink]

Dear experts

I have a Elgin pocket watch with serial nr. 34270315
From the database https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/34270315/movement

it says my Elgin is Model nr. 4 

can you tell me exactly what type of Balance staff i need 
bear in mind I am a novice 
just took my Elgin to the watchmaker in Iceland and he showed me my broken staff.

so I am trying to get a new/used one.

Best regards.

[WatchMaker]

Balance staffs are usually identified by 'Ronda number' and it is this number you ideally need. Probably like your watch repairer I've had trouble tracking down a parts list for your calibre that includes this but let's see if we can do a bit of detective work ...  

• It's the calibre information we're interested in here and it's an Elgin 495 confirmed from the information you've found. Here's data on that calibre: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Elgin_495
• What's helpful from this data is that your movement belongs to the family of calibre IDs shown on the right hand side i.e. a balance staff from one calibre in the family will fit another. I had a look in the various info I have and a quick search around the web but I couldn't find these calibres (but I do mainly deal with Swiss watches). However a look on ebay finds this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elgin-balance-staff-12s-4191C-DR-448-450-451-ht-365-axe-balancier-Unruhwelle/202717852076
• This ebay listing cites calibres 450 and 451 ... in the same family as your 495 and confirms for a calibre with (American) size 12. Helpfully the staff dimensions are also included.

My recommendation is for your watch repairer to confirm dimensions tie up with your movement before ordering. If these dimensions don't pan out for some reason then your watch repairer should be able to identify a correctly dimensioned staff and order by appropriate Ronda number from their usual supplier. imho they should have really gone this route to start with rather than getting you, the customer, to try and find things out. 

It's probably worth waiting first for any replies from other forum members who may be more familiar with Elgin movements in case they can come straight up with a specific Ronda number for you. 

 

[JohnR725]

usually with American pocket watches even if you have a part number you absolutely still have to measure the staff to verify its dimensions match the one that the part number has. For instance I'm attaching an image you'll notice that even if you have a part number for some staffs they have a lot of variations. Variations lead to frustrations for people that don't grasp that there are variations. Fortunately it appears to be your staff doesn't have variations. Although the parts book I looked in listed the number is 5317 and the image I'm attaching ads the C which conceivably means there's a variation even though it's not shown in the listing.

than the eBay listing above has staff number 4191C which is an entirely different staff than the one that I came up with by looking in the Elgin parts catalog of the 50s. I'm also attaching it the images from the 50s catalog. They can see your serial number range comes up with a number. Then with that number you can look up the part number.

[jdrichard]

This is why I make my own balance shafts...too much risk and cost in ordering one.


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[JPRink]

On 11/26/2019 at 8:58 PM, JohnR725 said:

usually with American pocket watches even if you have a part number you absolutely still have to measure the staff to verify its dimensions match the one that the part number has. For instance I'm attaching an image you'll notice that even if you have a part number for some staffs they have a lot of variations. Variations lead to frustrations for people that don't grasp that there are variations. Fortunately it appears to be your staff doesn't have variations. Although the parts book I looked in listed the number is 5317 and the image I'm attaching ads the C which conceivably means there's a variation even though it's not shown in the listing.

than the eBay listing above has staff number 4191C which is an entirely different staff than the one that I came up with by looking in the Elgin parts catalog of the 50s. I'm also attaching it the images from the 50s catalog. They can see your serial number range comes up with a number. Then with that number you can look up the part number.

Thank you for this information 

i found this in Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/12s-Elgin-5317C-Balance-Staff/183921896851?hash=item2ad2996d93:g:rKMAAOSw9GRdVzpd

do you think this is the right one?

[JohnR725]

numerically it looks right but you still have to measure the original and the new staff to make sure all the dimensions are indeed the same. Then one other minor irritation? the problem with visually looking at a new old stock staff is there is no way to tell where it came from. So some of the aftermarket manufacturers will make the staff over size on the grounds that the watchmaker can reduce everything to fit.  

[jdm]

Pls ignore. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by jdm

[vinn3]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 3:40 PM, jdrichard said:

This is why I make my own balance shafts...too much risk and cost in ordering one.


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   "yea but"  how long would it take to learn make parts with a lathe?   vin

[jdrichard]

   "yea but"  how long would it take to learn make parts with a lathe?   vin

Tool me around 4 months. Lots of reading and practice.


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