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Waltham Mass Balance Spring

carlos123

By carlos123
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

Posted
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Hi all,

 

I’ve just stripped and rebuilt a Waltham Mass pocket watch, which was running previously but didn’t keep time and kept on stopping. I’m on the final assembly stage and trying to install the balance wheel with little success [emoji45] the spring looks to be too big for the fixing point as well as the regulator being higher than the actual spring[emoji848] I’ve not messed around with it other than an ultrasonic bath and some oil, and wondered if someone could offer some advice please? This is my first proper go for a full strip down so hopefully I haven’t broken it...

 

Thanks in advance

 

Carl

b95a66af7cc159750ad57e0733a8fb59.jpg

 

 

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Posted (edited)

In the picture, the balance wheel seems laying on top of the mainbridge. Should stand a mm or two above the plate.

Check if the lower jewel is intact?  Lower pivot not broken. 

Show pix if not sure.

Regards 

 

Edited by Nucejoe
Lower metal bushing
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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

Posted
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Have you tried it in cock down position?

If the fork checks out( jumps left to right and back when nudged ) and nothing rubs, upper pivot intact, desent endshake. Perhaps roller has turned on staff which throws impulse jewel out of beat, that to explain the stud being far from stud holder.

 

Edited by Nucejoe
Check if the roller has moved.
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carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

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Check lower endstone? Did you forget to instal the lower endstone or broken.

I left the endstone in place when I cleaned it all. The balance spring looks offset when fitted as it looks like the anchor point is too close to the centre, the spring doesn’t really engage with the regulator either as it’s too high compared to where the spring lays.


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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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A picture of the other side of the balance Wheel and hairspring be nice so we can see the hairspring properly. Then the serial number so I can look up and see what kind of the hairspring you're supposed to have. Then before you disassemble did you notice any problems with the balance wheel and hairspring?

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carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

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A picture of the other side of the balance Wheel and hairspring be nice so we can see the hairspring properly. Then the serial number so I can look up and see what kind of the hairspring you're supposed to have. Then before you disassemble did you notice any problems with the balance wheel and hairspring?

Hopefully these photos are good enough and show the spring position?
7bc90c506a7d35bf2b96c7de23a42aa5.jpg74c208ea557d8ba35cd8a90fb01e5702.jpg


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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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I find the pictures misleading I had assumed that that was in 18 size pocket watch? So apparently it's a 14 size export grade watch. Both Elgin & waltham exported a lot of watches to Europe sometimes they had their name on them sometimes they did not that are often mistaken as English watches if their name is not visibly on them.

Then your picture looks like a slightly distorted outer terminal curve for a flat hairspring unfortunately according to the pocket watch database it's supposed to be in over coil. Then looking at where the regulator is in your first picture it looks like the pins are too short for flat hairspring and to close in it's definitely an over coil hairspring which you definitely do not have.

Look carefully at the balance wheel and see if there's a serial number on the wheel itself. Usually but not always on American pocket watches the serial number has been scratched in the balance wheel we can see if somebody swapped balance wheels?

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/6980192

14 size export grade.JPG

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Familiarize if you will, with the shape of a breguet overcoil . This HS may vibrate with the wheel, either the overcoil uncoiled or somebody just fitted a flat HS and passed it to you. 

At worst you would need to replace the HS with a proper breguet overcoil and vibrate.

 

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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In the picture, the balance wheel seems laying on top of the mainbridge. Should stand a mm or two above the plate.
Check if the lower jewel is intact?  Lower pivot not broken. 
Show pix if not sure.
Regards 
 

The stud is not in place in the photo??


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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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The serial number on the balance wheel is not stamped. It's usually hand done sometimes it's really hard to see and occasionally it's not there at all. You'll find it on the arms either on the top or the bottom. Then that hairspring looks nice and flat which is unfortunate because it looks like from the pictures you should have an over coil Hairspring. So if you can find a serial number on the balance it would be nice . Because that way we can figure out whether you just need a hairspring or balance complete either of which will be hard to get for 14 size.

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carlos123 Watch Enthusiast

carlos123

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The serial number on the balance wheel is not stamped. It's usually hand done sometimes it's really hard to see and occasionally it's not there at all. You'll find it on the arms either on the top or the bottom. Then that hairspring looks nice and flat which is unfortunate because it looks like from the pictures you should have an over coil Hairspring. So if you can find a serial number on the balance it would be nice . Because that way we can figure out whether you just need a hairspring or balance complete either of which will be hard to get for 14 size.

Just found the number, it looks like 6980 192. Very difficult to see


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JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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12 minutes ago, carlos123 said:

Just found the number, it looks like 6980 192. Very difficult to see

Good news you have the balance wheel for your watch bad news you don't have the hairspring perhaps? So if you're really good with hairspring manipulation you could possibly reform the over coil but that is a lot of work and the other minor problem is this assumes that this was the correct hairspring in the first place which it may not be. 

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, carlos123 said:

Would it be viable to reshape the spring? The watch did intermittently run previously prior to cleaning, however it was running way out with no adjustment which is probably down to the incorrect spring anyways...


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Yes, if the flat HS vibrates the wheel to the right beat, it also will as overcoil. I recommend  reshaping to overcoil. 

1- Moung the stud on stud holder.

2- instal balance ( hairspring attached) on the cock.

3- As if you are sculpturing , follow the curve of an overcoil from a picture as your modle. To come up with a fit within the space available above the balance wheel.

I hope I am making sense. 

Easier done than said. 

Edited by Nucejoe
Instal cock balance on mainplate.
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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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4 hours ago, carlos123 said:

Would it be viable to reshape the spring? The watch did intermittently run previously prior to cleaning, however it was running way out with no adjustment which is probably down to the incorrect spring anyways...


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It should run slow without the adjustor arm. How inaccurate did it run without?

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